Thread: Dont start me on Michael Caine

I have to agree with A_L & sfub on this.

As much as I've enjoyed some of Camerons films, a chimp could've directed most of them. Terminator 2, anyone?
He relies too much on special effects, and a massive budget, which gives him the power to have a mainly experianced cast that requires little direction. The special effects then blind people to the flimsy substance of his films.
I'd like to see him do a few films that require no or little special effects, with a much smaller budget. Then we'd see how good a director he really his.
As I've said, I do enjoy some of his films, but I wouldn't say he was a great director of them.

Originally Posted by Minnie_The_Minx

Originally Posted by maguire

are we talking actors or directors?

actors - Clint Eastwood
John Belushi What about 'Continental Divide' I love a RomCom but that was too much even for me. Dreadful lol
Sigourney Weav er

directors - Michael Mann
James Cameron
David Fincher
Stanley Kubrick
I would love to be able to say John Carpenter but lets be honest, he went off the boil after They Live. more's the pity. his films prior to that are almost all solid classics.

I just had a look at John Belushi on IMDB and he was in an episode of neighbours FFS, no wonder he OD'd and died shortly afterwards!

I'm probably going to get flamed but I don't remember a bad Larry Oliver film.

Originally Posted by Markintime

Originally Posted by Minnie_The_Minx

Originally Posted by maguire

are we talking actors or directors?

actors - Clint Eastwood
John Belushi What about 'Continental Divide' I love a RomCom but that was too much even for me. Dreadful lol
Sigourney Weav er

directors - Michael Mann
James Cameron
David Fincher
Stanley Kubrick
I would love to be able to say John Carpenter but lets be honest, he went off the boil after They Live. more's the pity. his films prior to that are almost all solid classics.

I just had a look at John Belushi on IMDB and he was in an episode of neighbours FFS, no wonder he OD'd and died shortly afterwards!

wah.

Originally Posted by maguire

Originally Posted by Markintime

Originally Posted by Minnie_The_Minx

Originally Posted by maguire

are we talking actors or directors?

actors - Clint Eastwood
John Belushi What about 'Continental Divide' I love a RomCom but that was too much even for me. Dreadful lol
Sigourney Weav er

directors - Michael Mann
James Cameron
David Fincher
Stanley Kubrick
I would love to be able to say John Carpenter but lets be honest, he went off the boil after They Live. more's the pity. his films prior to that are almost all solid classics.

I just had a look at John Belushi on IMDB and he was in an episode of neighbours FFS, no wonder he OD'd and died shortly afterwards!

wah.

You got me, it was a film! :D

Linky

Originally Posted by Markintime

Originally Posted by maguire

Originally Posted by Markintime

Originally Posted by Minnie_The_Minx

Originally Posted by maguire

are we talking actors or directors?

actors - Clint Eastwood
John Belushi What about 'Continental Divide' I love a RomCom but that was too much even for me. Dreadful lol
Sigourney Weav er

directors - Michael Mann
James Cameron
David Fincher
Stanley Kubrick
I would love to be able to say John Carpenter but lets be honest, he went off the boil after They Live. more's the pity. his films prior to that are almost all solid classics.

I just had a look at John Belushi on IMDB and he was in an episode of neighbours FFS, no wonder he OD'd and died shortly afterwards!

wah.

You got me, it was a film! :D

Linky

top marks for effort - I'd even gone so far as to wiki 'neighbours' the tv series to find out when it started. :P

Originally Posted by maguire

Originally Posted by sfub

IMO, the Alien films are basically a rehash of any 1950's western film with the 7th Cavalry replaced by Space marines, and Ripley as the disgraced officer who manages to save the day. Avatar is Dances With Wolves for the 21st Century. Very much style over substance. The Abyss was Mr Cameron's attempt at a deep film (excuse the pun) with the end result being a bit of a semi new age mess.

WTF does the first (or indeed any of the) Alien films have in common with westerns?

have you even seen the films concerned?

Yep. Now read what I wrote, digest and think.
The style may be different, but they are basically Westerns.

Originally Posted by sfub

Originally Posted by maguire

Originally Posted by sfub

IMO, the Alien films are basically a rehash of any 1950's western film with the 7th Cavalry replaced by Space marines, and Ripley as the disgraced officer who manages to save the day. Avatar is Dances With Wolves for the 21st Century. Very much style over substance. The Abyss was Mr Cameron's attempt at a deep film (excuse the pun) with the end result being a bit of a semi new age mess.

WTF does the first (or indeed any of the) Alien films have in common with westerns?

have you even seen the films concerned?

Yep. Now read what I wrote, digest and think.
The style may be different, but they are basically Westerns.

I take your point about Avatar but don't forget 'A Man Called Horse'.
BTW, I enjoyed Avatar more because of the visual effects than the storyline or the acting but there again I prefer to be entertained and rarely analyse what I'm watching too deeply, unless of course, if I'm watching a historical film.

Originally Posted by maguire

Originally Posted by Alec_Lomas

Originally Posted by maguire

Originally Posted by Alec_Lomas

Originally Posted by Command_doh

Originally Posted by Alec_Lomas

Originally Posted by Ursus.Maritimus

Originally Posted by maguire

re Titanic - I was prepared to hate it, but after being forced to sit through it by the then-gf I was impressed in spite of myself. (and not just for La Winslet's norks, either. although admittedly they were a bonus.) it really did capture the tragedy of what happened on so many levels.

and I cant not rate the guy who did T1 and Aliens.

Please tell me I wasn't the only guy who was cheering on the iceberg over this piece of over-developed, over-made tosh?

I've never rated Cameron as a director, however, I have a high regard for his technical brilliance. Following the Titanic movie, he developed an interest in the subject, enough to hire a Russian submersable craft and with specially designed cameras, functioning without a trailing cable, filmed the interior of Titanic. Fairly unique footage at the time.

It made for an interesting 3D film - 'Secrets Of The Deep'

Bold.

You must be joking? Aliens, Terminator, Terminator 2, True Lies, Titanic, Avatar = all box office failures. Yeah, he must be terrible. Thats why no studio trusts him to make more films. And he hasn't had 2 of the biggest grossing films of all time, either.

Fair play, True lies wasn't much cop, but it made money. Shame that Abyss didn't do so well, it was a good film and had a strong story.

My bold - No, honestly I'm not................ your list contains movies which have relied to a greater extent on special effects, which is my point. He couldn't direct you to the nearest pub toilet, but give him a story where actors/esses have to interact with scary special effects and he's becomes a genius.
If you want to talk 'Directors' who work with actors/esses, good scripts and minimum effects, try Billy Wilder, David Lean, John Ford, Hitchcock, Kurasawa, Fellini, De Sica, Coen boys, Eastwood and a dozen others.

sorry, I cant agree - his two Terminator films, the Abyss and Aliens are tour de forces in terms of action sci fi films. the Abyss and Aliens in particular have great ensemble casts that he gets fantastic performances from. and I would regard myself as partial to arty films as the next guy (I've paid full price for Andrei Tarkovsky dvd's before now.)

just becuase something is aimed at the mainstream doesnt mean it's badly crafted. and he hasnt gone off the boil like some directors.

My bold - Simon Cowell does the same for a herd of kareoke artists. The daily press and award ceremonies extol his talents. He's 'done' many of the highest grossing tunes in the past few year. He gets fantastic performances blah.... blah........ James Cameron, Simon Cowell, spot the difference :D

you cannot compare the two. Abba wrote dozens of massively selling records, but the difference between their output and cowell's loathsome body of 'work' is like the difference between the finest Italian meal hand prepared by an amazing chef and a frozen sh1t & anchovy pizza.

can you honestly tell me you do not think 'Aliens' is a good film?

So,you like Abba, eh? Do you also like Judy Garland and gladiator movies?

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

Ah, Billy Wilder. One of the best directors ever, and made one of the funniest films too, in 'Some Like it Hot' and some of the best films of all time, like 'The Apartment', Sunset Boulevard and Witness for the prosecution.
Then JohnFord. What can one say about a towering legend like him? Other than he made excellent films.

Incidentally, would like to add the name of Jack lemmon to the pantheon of those who never - or rarely - made a bad film

Jack Lemmon, absolute legend. The Odd Couple is a masterpiece.

Originally Posted by GrizzlyPanda

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

Ah, Billy Wilder. One of the best directors ever, and made one of the funniest films too, in 'Some Like it Hot' and some of the best films of all time, like 'The Apartment', Sunset Boulevard and Witness for the prosecution.
Then JohnFord. What can one say about a towering legend like him? Other than he made excellent films.

Incidentally, would like to add the name of Jack lemmon to the pantheon of those who never - or rarely - made a bad film

Jack Lemmon, absolute legend. The Odd Couple is a masterpiece.

Agreed but Irma la Douce fcuking isn't.

Originally Posted by GrizzlyPanda

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

Ah, Billy Wilder. One of the best directors ever, and made one of the funniest films too, in 'Some Like it Hot' and some of the best films of all time, like 'The Apartment', Sunset Boulevard and Witness for the prosecution.
Then JohnFord. What can one say about a towering legend like him? Other than he made excellent films.

Incidentally, would like to add the name of Jack lemmon to the pantheon of those who never - or rarely - made a bad film

Jack Lemmon, absolute legend. The Odd Couple is a masterpiece.

He and Walter Matthau were brilliant in JFK

Originally Posted by sfub

Originally Posted by maguire

Originally Posted by sfub

IMO, the Alien films are basically a rehash of any 1950's western film with the 7th Cavalry replaced by Space marines, and Ripley as the disgraced officer who manages to save the day. Avatar is Dances With Wolves for the 21st Century. Very much style over substance. The Abyss was Mr Cameron's attempt at a deep film (excuse the pun) with the end result being a bit of a semi new age mess.

WTF does the first (or indeed any of the) Alien films have in common with westerns?

have you even seen the films concerned?

Yep. Now read what I wrote, digest and think.
The style may be different, but they are basically Westerns.

I have read what you wrote. Aliens possibly... at a very great stretch. Alien? not a chance. a haunted house feature set in outer space, yes, I'll grant you. a western? how exactly?

Originally Posted by sfub

The style may be different, but they are basically Westerns.

I think there are 6 basic plots for any book, film or play. So everything is derivative. Westerns were basically Robin Hood with looser tights.

John Huston. And his Dad Walter. And their Mother Angelica.

Originally Posted by Markintime

I'm probably going to get flamed but I don't remember a bad Larry Oliver film.

Yup.

The Jazz Singer (1980): dodgiest Jewish accent ever.

Inchon (1982): as Douglas MacArthur fer crissake?! The film is complete pooh.