- 09-04-2012, 13:21 #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
Civilian appreciation of military qualifications
I am not a journalist
Over the last few years we have been assisting service personnel as they go through ressetlement. Our main focus is on helping service leavers who are confused
about what sort of a role they would be most suited to in civilian employment, unravel where is thier best 'fit'. We have met quite a few servicemen who tell us
that their military qualifications have not been recognised by civilian employers. This includes a variety of roles even including aircraft engineers!
We would very much like to hear from anyone who can confirm if this is indeed the case as an MP who supports our charity, Soldier On!, would like to address the
House of Commons about this matter, if indeed it is true.
A chance to make a difference, if needed, please do contact us and let us know your experiences, thank you so much.
Nicholas - firstname.lastname@example.org
- 14-04-2012, 12:34 #2
From a serving soldier point of view I would say that the biggest gripe is that the promise of civilian qualifications being awarded at the end of a trade course are often false. The course will only cover so much with the remaineder having to be done at a working unit. Fine, if you have qualified assessors etc. Most trade courses have been stripped down to the absolute bare bones leaving the soldier with a defence diploma which is no use whatsoever. Civilian companies want civilian qualifications, it is that simple. Artisan trades need to have their skills recognised by a civilian body, all the Army is worried about is that by giving soldiers civilian qualifications they are simple going to sign off and leave the Army. What ever happened to non financial rewards to motivate personnel, i.e. by letting personnel get qualified in their relevent discipline?Royal Engineers - bodging stuff since 1856
- 14-04-2012, 12:55 #3
Crikey plant life, I'd thought things had moved on, but obviously not.
Back in the 70's and 80's I wanted to join a civilian trade association. Nothing to do with wanting to sign off, but more to do with keeping up with what my civilian counterparts were up to, access to the latest kit and on an educational level, to study and therefore to keep me out the pub a bit longer.
We didn't have any formally recognised trade qualifications, because there were no such thing. It wasn't until AVRO (Association of Vehicle Recovery Operators) was formed that any sort of recognition was given to my chosen profession, but the Military was not interested in helping me out.
There was nothing stopping me from joining, and I claimed 'grandfather' rights to bypass the entrance exams. I paid for my subs, and newsletter and attended seminars during annual leave all at my own expense which I was happy to do.
Towards the end of my time, we did start getting some modern equipment from the 'civvy shelf' on a trial basis, (air bags and kinetic tow ropes spring to mind) but this was only as a result of our cross working with civilians in the Industry.
Shame really, as I suspect there are plenty of trades within the Army who could benefit from more civilian interaction.
MOD should pull it's head from the sand, and stop worrying about retention, and educate tradesmen and women to the same standards (at least) to that of equivalent trades in civvie Strasse.If you are an ex-serviceman or woman who wants to network mutual commercial interests, you can PM me for an invite to join the new ARRSE Business Group.
- 14-04-2012, 13:07 #4
i got out in 2007, for me the resettlement was a crock of pish.
they seemed to be more interested in pidgeon holing folk, i.e infantry to do c.p. courses,
drivers to do HAZMAT/ driving, sigs to do comms.
i was trying to get on a HAZMAT instructors course and basically was laughed out the room !!!
i cant remember the name the grant that was given but i certainly got fucked off at the high port for it.
more interested in saving as much cash as possible, my opinion obviously
- 15-04-2012, 07:59 #5
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
I studied at a defence college for my trade, ended up with an NVQ level 3 in Aeronautical engineering, but it certainly wont be accepted by civilians. Im not sure if colleges or universities would even accept a defence apprenticeship. Seeing as we go through full time intensive study at defence colleges or schools, id rather the government who we work for give us real qualifications such as A levels or GCSE's opposed to NVQ's. We put the study in for it, more then real colleges id say, most college students do 4 or 5 one hour lessons a week on a single subject, we have to be in class all day studying a single subject, with the exception of PT or parades, and also study at night.
Being at a defence college should not be the same as being an apprentice as you are a full time student, your not really being paid for work, as your not actually producing any, of course an apprentice is taught by an employer in exchange for a contract, but to make us more employable it would be nice to view military service differently.
But im happy i got something as opposed to nothing like it used to be.
Last edited by Squip; 15-04-2012 at 08:02.
- 15-04-2012, 09:00 #6
We have met face to face and good luck with the research via ARRSE
- 16-04-2012, 12:08 #7
Certainly some of the technical trades do work a damn sight harder than civvies. As a Clerk of Works when we used to get HNDs rather than foundation degrees we did 5 modules more than a civvy HND, in a shorter time span with a higher pass mark!
Unfortuantly with the RE artisan trades because the "nice to know" stuff has been cut out of the syllabus to save money they guys don't have the relevent knoweldge to get the higher level NVQs or City and Guilds.Royal Engineers - bodging stuff since 1856
- 16-04-2012, 13:53 #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Newcastle Upon Tyne
I found the careers transition workshop course helpfull to an extent, but limited in what it could actually do for you. As someone else mentioned they just seemed to point you in a certain direction and a lot of stuff was out of date. Luckily I knew what I wanted to do and organised it all and chased it myself. Maybe thats hows its meant to be, you sort all your own shit out. It is civvie street after all, but I don't have much confidence in the resettlement system. Took me long enough to get my resettelment money through, allthough it was around the time the army were bringing JPA in so that may explain the delay.I hope all the politicians who were depressed and stressed because they got caught fiddling expenses are feeling better after their 3 months off.
I bet the lads in Afghanistan were worried sick about them.
- 16-04-2012, 17:24 #9
A lot depends on the unit you are posted to. A lot of the guys don't touch their trade half as much as we did in the 90's and early 2000's for two reasons: whole fleet management and the fact that we don't have the Balkans/Northern Ireland or large maint teams like we used to. I have worked on civvy sites with my Dad whilst on leave and have seen ex RE guys getting along perfectly fine although they admitted it took a little bit of time to speed up.
With Afghan slowly drawing down in the next few years hopefully there will be more opportunity for guys to get away on MACC tasks and keep their eye in with regards to trade. This will also provide the evidence they need to gain qualifications. We also need to start getting more qualified assessors in.Royal Engineers - bodging stuff since 1856
- 16-04-2012, 18:27 #10
All my courses done with MoD for work reasons are recognised in civy street:
*key skills level 2 in warehousing and distribution
*city and guilds NVQ level 2 in warehousing
*Dangerous Aic Cargo shipper with Civil Aviation Authority (refresher course at deepcut 2 weeks ago)
*Merchant mariners Intermediate Sea Survival Course
*Level 2 English (key skills)
*Level 1 Maths (key skills)
*Level 3 first aid
Sent from my iPhone using The Force"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."
- Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) noted in 1980.