ARmy Rumour SErvice

**nanotm** · 24-11-2011, 07:06

Originally Posted by Drlligaf

I noticed on the news last night that there is minor disagreement between Barroso and Merkel. Barroso wants Eurobonds at about 4% interest to replace the various national bonds. This would involve Germany paying shed loads for those who borrow and then default. Angies reply was a definite "Nein". Barroso threw his teddy in the corner. Even the other suggestions whereby the individual countries retain their bonds alongside the Eurobonds received another "Nein". The Eurobond would be an invitation to financial irresponsibility, fear the Germans. Borrow money cheaply and default, with Germany standing guarantee. The Germans fears seem well grounded, which raises the question just what is Barroso's game, he must be aware of the consequences?

forcing hte jump into a federal europe,

if they agree to centralise debt into eurobonds then its only a short leap into centralised political union, which if they have centralised finacial unity first will be driven by the need for a single control source, effectivly a clever backdoor leap from single soverign states into one large heap of shit, it wont stop the failure it will just make it far more epic

**cernunnos** · 24-11-2011, 07:08

This link may be of interest to contributors to this thread:

Google-Ergebnis für http://images4.cpcache.com/product/309654684v4_150x150_Front_Color-White.jpg

**alib** · 24-11-2011, 08:26

Excellent bit of in depth reporting the BBC New Global Economics: The Shock and the Shift by he FT's Martin Wolf.

Takes a broader look at what's going wrong in this strange version of capitalism, reckons the Anglo economies mistook tricksy innovations in the financial services sector for a revolutionary new phase and entirely lost sight of the "services" part. Predicts a great adjustment, much tighter credit, even slower growth.

Larry Summers, one of the authors of the Lehman mess, takes a very sharp dig at the EUs lemming like drive towards simultaneous austerity.

Structural faults in the Eurozone and particularly the lack of a functional central bank in the EU gets quite a lot of blame.

**jonwilly** · 24-11-2011, 08:51

According to Bloomberg TV Germany is now selling bonds at 2.2 %, up from yesterdays failure at 2 %.

john

**redmenacemedic** · 24-11-2011, 09:11

one word-welfare.
fine if everyone pays their tax.
and tax and spending are same.
once tax collection is less than spending-you borrow.
ooops.
hence austerity in UK means no more lesbian one legged swahili advisors.
In USA it means less cops.
In singapore it means sod all as they have zero welfare and low tax with still growth though it is down next year to around 3%

mind you ,you can see the problems with too extreme an approach to welfare
in uk too many sods do no work and everyone wants in.
here in singers,old yins have to work on as no pension and their saved funds are too low to make ends meet.
and they pay as everyone does for healthcare!

a common sense approach is needed.
means testing is not torture.
fi we want to tax folk to spread to poor-lets define poor and investigate savings to identify them-then support generously to get out of poverty.
poverty aint not having a new x box.

and as for humidity here
theres sod all humidity in the bars!
though some say it can get steamy-especially in the four floors(ask an old singapore hand)

**FORMER_FYRDMAN** · 24-11-2011, 09:31

Originally Posted by vvaannmmaann

This may help.
Who Is To Blame For The Subprime Crisis?

Since it doesn't seem to mention Bill Clinton's National Home Ownership strategy, it doesn't help much.

**jonwilly** · 24-11-2011, 09:51

Ah
Bill Clinton
Ya means he set the game in play.

john

**Brotherton Lad** · 24-11-2011, 09:52

It's the economy, stupid?

**jonwilly** · 24-11-2011, 09:53

Tis indeed.

john

**FORMER_FYRDMAN** · 24-11-2011, 10:06

Verily, he of the cigars. Or, in this case, he who encouraged the granting of credit to those who should never have been let anywhere near a loan, which lending was then packaged into a set of ever more complex toxic financial instruments with attendant risks which nobody understood. One can't lay it all at the feet of the boy from Hope but, insofar as history and blame are concerned, credit where credit's due, or rather, not in the case of the National Home Ownership strategy.