ARmy Rumour SErvice

**MrPVRd** · 18-10-2008, 09:45

I recall an Army officer recruitment advert from the 90s which had a minefield scenario, helo called in and setting off mines.

The loss of lives will not stop cost-cutting, penny-pinching, rushed operations and the surrounding spin. It is only when senior officers, officials and ministers end up in the dock - for example, following the Justice Collins ruling over equipment and human rights - that things may change...although the government would presumably try and legislate to prevent that.

T Blair: "Anything they need to ask for in order to protect our troops, I will make sure they get. Our obligation to them is to get them what they need to do the job.â€ Liar.

**kennys-go-nad** · 18-10-2008, 11:34

What grips my sh*t is the fact that the Mark Wright set the mine off party line was trotted out by MOD well before the patrol had even been interviewed about what exactly happened, this was not until the men were in Selly Oak. Then to cap it all the MOD's own inquiry blamed the men on the ground. There is no shame with some people. Take a good hard look at Admiral Tony Johnson-Bird. He is the face of whom represents the good of the service peoples both now and in the future. What face he will be using at the time I'm not sure.

Its time for outside representation of the forces interests

**mnairb** · 18-10-2008, 12:15

We must remember that Rear-Admiral Tony Johnson-Bird represents the non-combatant branch of HM Forces (the one that cries when its' iPod is taken away) and is not conversant with (or particularly bothered about) Pongos at the sharp end.

In any case, these inquests, where the government is slated on a regular basis, will soon be a thing of the past. That nice Home Secretary, Jackboot Jacqui, has conveniently slipped a clause into the Prevention of Terrorism Bill (which Gordon will soon use the Parliament Act to railroad through) effectively muzzling Coroners unless they reach conclusions which are more in line with the 'Official' view of the incident.

**Closet_Jibber** · 18-10-2008, 12:20

Originally Posted by kennys-go-nad

What grips my sh*t is the fact that the Mark Wright set the mine off party line was trotted out by MOD well before the patrol had even been interviewed about what exactly happened, this was not until the men were in Selly Oak. Then to cap it all the MOD's own inquiry blamed the men on the ground. There is no shame with some people. Take a good hard look at Admiral Tony Johnson-Bird. He is the face of whom represents the good of the service peoples both now and in the future. What face he will be using at the time I'm not sure.

Its time for outside representation of the forces interests

My Bold.

My thoughts exactly. It is disgusting that they can even try and pin the blame on someone who isn't here to defend his actions.

It used to be very easy for The MOD to point the finger at the deceased/troops involved/junior command. I think now it is becoming quite clear that returning troops/survivors have a voice and that the truth will eventually come out. So why cause the heartache for the families?

I think the message for the MOD should be "Tell it like it is."

RIP to the fallen.

**Jaeger** · 18-10-2008, 12:44

A few questions if I may? What sort of mine was it that injured Cpl. Wright? How is it supposed to be initiated?. Why/how would the downdraft activate it? Is helo downdraft a recognised hazard in minefields? What was it about their training for minefields that was found to be indaequate and why?

Just curious you understand.

**ABrighter2006** · 18-10-2008, 13:00

Originally Posted by Jaeger

A few questions if I may? What sort of mine was it that injured Cpl. Wright? How is it supposed to be initiated?. Why/how would the downdraft activate it? Is helo downdraft a recognised hazard in minefields? What was it about their training for minefields that was found to be indaequate and why?

Just curious you understand.

Can't comment on the specifics of this incident, but minefields in AFG commonly are mixed, and use a variety of munitions, ranging from small AP mines to mines left over and stockpiled from the Soviet occupation period, that are designed to take out armour. Many mines are unstable through their age, and therefore easily initiated.

The downdraft from a Chinnook is incredible. Having watched bergans of about 40Kg get blown away like tumbleweed, as one picked my group out of Maysan, the concept of using this airframe to execute this form of evacuation, beggars belief.

My opinion is that any mines, that were within a 100ft radius, were very likely to have been blown around like confetti, with the inevitable consequences.

**rockhoppercrab** · 18-10-2008, 13:53

Originally Posted by ABrighter2006

The downdraft from a Chinnook is incredible. Having watched bergans of about 40Kg get blown away like tumbleweed, as one picked my group out of Maysan, the concept of using this airframe to execute this form of evacuation, beggars belief.

Nevermind bergans i can remember being blown about marshalling the feckers in my lighter incarnation. Hope the spams bring this into account when they choose their next CSAR chopper. IIRC they went for Merlin then then as its not designed and built in the good ol us of a they changed the parameters to make the Chinook the preferred option. Think there is still some legal wrangling going on. Hope the Merlins we converted are being used in the right place (they had two winches)

**lsquared** · 18-10-2008, 15:26

Like other posters I could not believe my ears when the Rear Admiral made his comments. Is he trying to follow the clown West into the political world? Are we witnessing the beginning of an era of compliant, complacent and politically 'loyal' senior officers, who place adherence to the whims and wishes of the governing party ahead of their DUTY to their Servicemen and women?

As for the Coroner, I hope and pray he will not suffer a 'Dr Kelly moment' some time in the future. 'Stalin' Brown does NOT like to be criticised, especially as is now busily engaged in 'saving the world' - having wrecked this country!

If, as one poster suggested, there is to be legislation to 'muzzle' coroners then I hope the Tory Party and the Lib/Dems will oppose such a plan vigourously and agree to repeal such law as soon as possible.

**runski** · 18-10-2008, 16:40

Just found out he's actually Rear Admiral Johnston-Burt

Listening again to his tosh (calmly this time) I spotted this:

He stated (unequivocally) that Cpl Wright detonated the mine, not the chinook downdraft.

He then stated he wouldn't have sanctioned the use of a winch helicopter due to the hazards presented by the winch (inc winchman) and the downdraft (my bold.)

So you shouldn't use helis because of the draft but the draft of the big green heli didn't set off the mine??

If this is indicative of the intellectual capabilities of the Navy / MOD then it's no wonder we're in such a mess.

Surely the non-shortage of helicopters isn't connected to his view that the lives and legs of squaddies aren't a good reason to risk and airframe??