We've all been there after a few pints...

Originally Posted by Jagythistle

Originally Posted by Dr_Chris

. He was doing his job as a soldier.

Which might explain why he kept crashing the plane :D

Ha Ha.

Let´s be honest, apart from my Father in Law (who will never fogive the Luftwaffe for bombing his Rugby pitch) do we really hold any grudge against this man or any others*?

*except the proper nazis that is.

Dresden was a place where roads and railways converged - the object was to wreck it so that the Germans could not retreat through it and so would be forced to face the Russians. Entirely militarily justified, raid worked a treat. If the Germans didn't want a war they shouldn'y have backed Hitler so enthusiastically. I suppose the Wermacht soldiers who committed all sorts of atrocities in Eastern Europe were 'only doing their job'.

By 1939 (by 1936 in fact) the disgusting treatment of the Jews in Germany was so blatant that no sentient German could have deceived himself that his Government was in any way on the side of right.

Your Kraut had a moral duty to refuse to bomb Bath as it was NOT any sort of military target. Next thing people will be saying that those Huns who obliterated Rotterdam (remember Holland was a neutral country) were 'only doing their job'.

The Germans are stained to the end of time for what their forebears not only did in the war but for their nation wrecking the first half of the twentieth century for the whole of Europe and far beyond, and wrecking the whole of the century for Eastern Europe which disappeared into a fifty-year night of Socialist brutality, torture, murder and general slavery.

Personally I think invading Iraq was entirely right, pity (1) wrong arguments were used to justify it to the public because Blair et al didn't trust their own people and (2) Americans made a Horlicks of the peace afterwards.

Originally Posted by seaweed

Dresden was a place where roads and railways converged - the object was to wreck it so that the Germans could not retreat through it and so would be forced to face the Russians. Entirely militarily justified, raid worked a treat. If the Germans didn't want a war they shouldn'y have backed Hitler so enthusiastically. I suppose the Wermacht soldiers who committed all sorts of atrocities in Eastern Europe were 'only doing their job'.

By 1939 (by 1936 in fact) the disgusting treatment of the Jews in Germany was so blatant that no sentient German could have deceived himself that his Government was in any way on the side of right.

Your Kraut had a moral duty to refuse to bomb Bath as it was NOT any sort of military target. Next thing people will be saying that those Huns who obliterated Rotterdam (remember Holland was a neutral country) were 'only doing their job'.

The Germans are stained to the end of time for what their forebears not only did in the war but for their nation wrecking the first half of the twentieth century for the whole of Europe and far beyond, and wrecking the whole of the century for Eastern Europe which disappeared into a fifty-year night of Socialist brutality, torture, murder and general slavery.

Personally I think invading Iraq was entirely right, pity (1) wrong arguments were used to justify it to the public because Blair et al didn't trust their own people and (2) Americans made a Horlicks of the peace afterwards.

Then why use incendaries? The railway system was fully operational again within 3 days.

Bath had industry.

We did exactly the same and in some cases worse to their cities as they did to ours.

Yet we did not exterminate 6 million jews, obviously.

The problem is, as a private or soldier called up to the army "I've been asked to do something, if I don't my life is in peril. No-one else is going to say anything".

Was Suez canal justified? Did Hamburg have to be pounded for 3 days and nights solidly?

It is very easy to look back as the victor at the terror caused by your enemy, but remember that neither side had the cleanest hands in the war.

Despite that the Allies were fighting for the common good and the lesser of two evils. I am not a revisionist and I'm not a twat.

Originally Posted by seaweed

The Germans are stained to the end of time for what their forebears not only did in the war but for their nation wrecking the first half of the twentieth century for the whole of Europe and far beyond, and wrecking the whole of the century for Eastern Europe which disappeared into a fifty-year night of Socialist brutality, torture, murder and general slavery.

To be honest, I doubt you'll live to the end of time, and I'm sure decent people won't be holding Germans responsible much longer for events that happened over three generations ago. Germans are stained for all time?
Get a grip.

My father was a complete bxstxrd - I have been a perfect father to my children and I love them to bits. Do they carry the stain of evil from him - NO. They are sound and well balanced young ladies.

He still doesn't have a headstone - leave the villains in the past and move on with what you have now today.

Mein Gott! Still trying then, Willi?

That is the mark of a good German. Never give up.

When do we invade France again?

It wasn't exactly a crash, it was an emergency landing due to a lack of fuel. The aircraft was not "vandalised" either, it was broken into and the GPS stolen. I know because the airfield he landed on is half a mile from my house and about seven miles from Bath. However no one has heard of where I live so the journo-scum just "rounded evverything up" to a crash, vandalism, Bath level to make it easier for the undemanding consumers of tablod media. Good old BBC, never let the facts get in the way of the "news".

Originally Posted by seaweed

If the Germans didn't want a war they shouldn'y have backed Hitler so enthusiastically. .

You seem to forget 70% voted AGAINST Hitler- many of those who did were old and dead by the time the war started.

As usual, the old and dead send the young to die.

You know the nature of the regime, not too easy to denounce policies once in power. I would imagine most only saw the benefits- not a vast number of Jews or whatever in small towns and villages, and of course at that time no one would have doubted the "protective custody" element.

No one is going to blame individuals in the future, but the nation will have to carry that stigma for some time yet, till it becomes as distant as slavery, the UKs equivelant.

Suez - Nasser stole our canal, therefore we had the right to try and get it back. However we were screwed by the Americans into a premature ceasefire. Eisenhower later said that was the biggest foreign policy mistake of his life.

Goebbels' comments suggest that the Hamburg raids were highly suuccessful. NB Allied bombing tied up ENORMOUS German manpower and material resources thus draining effort from their war against the Russians.

ASs to the Jews, no urban German could have failed to notice the abusive graffiti, the broken windows, the yellow stars .. and modern Germany does not have clean hands over bringing its many, many war criminals to justice.