ARmy Rumour SErvice

The idea with Typhoon is (or was) to ensure that the RAF could field seven front line squadrons - this was originally to replace eight (or nine - I forget which) front line squadrons of Jaguars and Tornado F3s, so already a cut in strength - each with 16 aircraft, plus an op conversion unit, an op evaluation unit and a some others at Boscombe Down/other test establishments over a period of thirty years.

This is why the figure of 232 was arrived at - taking account of projected losses in accidents and the rate at which the aircraft fatigue life would be used up, you need to rotate airframes in and out of use to ensure that you can keep approx 135 airframes in service over three decades.

It's not so much a question of airframes being kept in mothballs thanks to a lack of money, but an issue of fleet management.

If you don't have the spare 90-odd airframes, you run the risk of reaching 2035 and discovering that your fast jet fleet is substantially smaller than needed.

Now, there are a couple of variables. There is uncertainty as to whether the RAF is going to get all seven squadrons, and the number of aircraft per squadron is likely to be slightly less than the originally-projected 16. However, that still leaves a requirement for quite a lot of aircraft kept in reserve to be rotated in and out of storage to even out the fatigue life of the fleet to get it to its projected out-of-service date - which is likely to be rather later than first planned, since every aircraft the RAF has fielded between about 1965 and 1990 has gone on for years past its intended out of service date or is now projected to do so.

The problems have always come from skimping on spares procurement, etc, etc. With Typhoon, the current way of saving money is to delay the reformation of 6 Sqn on Typhoon by allowing the Saudis to take the production slots which would've provided the airframes for that unit.

ah I see, I stand corrected then, I thought clearly incorrectly that 232 was the amount of aircraft the RAF would have at anyone time, either in service, being serviced, used for training,

thow wrong i have been

Duncan

Its been discussed in some depth by folks in the know on various aviation forums but the Typhoon contract is effectively uncutable. All countries would have to agree if the UK wanted to reduce its slots which will never happen. About the only option is to defer production of the UK airframes which is what the Saudi deal will do, as said above.

I think of bigger concern might be what will fly from the CVF's if the F-35 gets delayed at all. There won't be many Harriers left at that time if current usage rates continue.

So F35 which isnt yet in production (is it anything other than dream form?) wont be available and if it miraculously makes it into service means we will have more ac than we can train pilots for although the septics dont want us to have the same gizmos as they will have!
Great planning there Gordo!
Keep us worried about body armour and hospitals whilst all the time you will drip feed a bit of kit at a time and hail it as a triumph.
Might as well lease them to the Iraquis for oil then!

Was it Skybolt that Britain committed to buy when we canceled our air launch 'Ballistic' missile Blue Water ?
The Yanks scrapped it for whatever reason suited them.
So it has happened before that the US will do whatever suits them (Why not) and could leave us with Two lovely Carriers and no cabs.
john
and I certainly believe the UK needs a strong navy, always did and always will.

Originally Posted by jonwilly

Was it Skybolt that Britain committed to buy when we canceled our air launch 'Ballistic' missile Blue Water ?
The Yanks scrapped it for whatever reason suited them.
So it has happened before that the US will do whatever suits them (Why not) and could leave us with Two lovely Carriers and no cabs.
john
and I certainly believe the UK needs a strong navy, always did and always will.

Wasnt that Blue Streak and I agree re the Navy, the one we have now would have our ancestors spinning in their graves!

The preliminary figures also includes planned quantities for the United Kingdom of 2 aircraft in fiscal year 2009, 4 aircraft in fiscal year 2010, 9 aircraft in fiscal year 2011, 9 aircraft in fiscal year 2012, and 10 aircraft in fiscal year 2013.

From Global Security

and;

BAE SYSTEMS STARTS MANUFACTURE OF THE FIRST F-35 LIGHTNING II PRODUCTION AIRCRAFT 18 April 2008

From BAe Systems

Originally Posted by tomahawk6

Why build carriers when the RN doesnt have the money to keep its current fleet at sea ? A carrier requires escorts to protect it.

Protect it against what? Random terrorists in a fast speed boat crammed with explosives? Submarines? Another bigger navy? Air launched missiles? Iranians kidnapping our intercept crews (a lot of good they did to protect that crew). What exactly is the threat to our Navy that requires so many escort ships?