ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Whiskybreath

There's also the possibility that you give him too much credit for his role in influencing the violence; the mobs and gangs most certainly weren't under his command, and he most certainly wasn't a lone voice - probably the loudest, though.

Perhaps - sure and there was and would have been violence anyway, but you must admit, the man made it worse with his speeches, and for that I cannot forgive him. But I am glad that time is over and hope NI will never revert back to it.

Originally Posted by Taz_786

Never NEVER NEVER!!!!

Gerry Adams said in his autobiography (Yes I know I know, there was nothing else in the library worth reading) that when he worked in a bookshop as a kid Paisley and his thugs regularly used to march past demanding the removal of Irish Tricolours and threatening to tear them down themselves if the RUC didn't. No doubt it was that sort of stuff that led to Adams going down the path he did.

No shame in reading it. I read Ayatollah Khomeini's biography, just so I could learn more about the man and what motivated him. Knowledge of friends and of enemies is important.

And yes, no doubt that and the instituitionalised prejudice that Catholics faced influenced Adams' path. He comes from a long line of republicans.

Originally Posted by KevinB

Originally Posted by Whiskybreath

There's also the possibility that you give him too much credit for his role in influencing the violence; the mobs and gangs most certainly weren't under his command, and he most certainly wasn't a lone voice - probably the loudest, though.

Perhaps - sure and there was and would have been violence anyway, but you must admit, the man made it worse with his speeches, and for that I cannot forgive him. But I am glad that time is over and hope NI will never revert back to it.

There's no doubt at all that Paisley was one of the main causes of continued strife in Norn Iron. He, more than anybody else, prevented a much earlier solution to the "problem" with his inflammatory speeches. However, he did move along the peace process once he realised he was going to be one of those benefiting from it.

Whatever, the situation now is miles better than it was, and if everybody tries to make a positive contribution, then it can only get better. Let's hope it continues in that vein and doesn't revert to the horror that it was.

MsG

Originally Posted by Taz_786

Never NEVER NEVER!!!!

Gerry Adams said in his autobiography (Yes I know I know, there was nothing else in the library worth reading) that when he worked in a bookshop as a kid Paisley and his thugs regularly used to march past demanding the removal of Irish Tricolours and threatening to tear them down themselves if the RUC didn't. No doubt it was that sort of stuff that led to Adams going down the path he did.

Not like Gerry to tell a wee fib or two. The threat to pull down a tricolour happened once not regularly and the "bookshop" was the Sinn Fein centre. Adams presence in the Sinn Fein centre and the fact that he was already a member of the IRA at the time (he joined as a teenager) makes me doubt very much if Paisley threatening to pull down a tricolour had much to do with him going down the path he did.

Originally Posted by LEGZ30

Originally Posted by Taz_786

Never NEVER NEVER!!!!

Gerry Adams said in his autobiography (Yes I know I know, there was nothing else in the library worth reading) that when he worked in a bookshop as a kid Paisley and his thugs regularly used to march past demanding the removal of Irish Tricolours and threatening to tear them down themselves if the RUC didn't. No doubt it was that sort of stuff that led to Adams going down the path he did.

Not like Gerry to tell a wee fib or two. The threat to pull down a tricolour happened once not regularly and the "bookshop" was the Sinn Fein centre. Adams presence in the Sinn Fein centre and the fact that he was already a member of the IRA at the time (he joined as a teenager) makes me doubt very much if Paisley threatening to pull down a tricolour had much to do with him going down the path he did.

As I was not at the bookshop, I could not say if the threat was made to pull the tricolour down regularly, but it wouldn't be beyond imagination to see Paisley threatening such a thing.

However, what I am sure influenced Adams the most was, as I said, the instituitionalised prejudice that Catholics faced in NI. If this discrimination had been dealt with in the 1960s, I do think the Troubles could have been averted.

Originally Posted by KevinB

Did you know that some of the founders of the UDA were close friends of his and worked for him?.

You need to put that into the context of the time. The UDA was a legal organisation and all sorts of people were in it. At that time you could legally join the UDA while a serving member of the British Army.

Originally Posted by KevinB

That a member of Free Presbyterianism, Johnnie McKeague, founded tha Red Hand Commandos? That UVF gunman Billy Mitchell taught Sunday school for the Free Presbyterian church? That Brian Green, a trusted London aide, had ties to National Front? That the Spences used to organise Paisley's rallies?

Many practising Catholics and some Priests were in the IRA. It doesn't make the Pope a Provo.

Originally Posted by KevinB

That UDA leader Freddie Parkinson, said in 1984, that Paisley was "a tarantula who spreads the venom of further conflict and has been a major contributor to our prolonged tragedy."

Remind me why I should be interested in the opinion of a criminal?

Several people had mentioned Ulster Resistance and the Third Force as proof that Paisley was involved in terrorism but I don't remember any terrorist attacks carried out by either group.

Getting lots of armed men (or men with FACs) to stand in a field and listen to speeches as a demonstration of intent has been a part of unionist politics since 1912.

Originally Posted by LEGZ30

Originally Posted by KevinB

Did you know that some of the founders of the UDA were close friends of his and worked for him?.

You need to put that into the context of the time. The UDA was a legal organisation and all sorts of people were in it. At that time you could legally join the UDA while a serving member of the British Army.

Originally Posted by KevinB

That a member of Free Presbyterianism, Johnnie McKeague, founded tha Red Hand Commandos? That UVF gunman Billy Mitchell taught Sunday school for the Free Presbyterian church? That Brian Green, a trusted London aide, had ties to National Front? That the Spences used to organise Paisley's rallies?

Many practising Catholics and some Priests were in the IRA. It doesn't make the Pope a Provo.

Originally Posted by KevinB

That UDA leader Freddie Parkinson, said in 1984, that Paisley was "a tarantula who spreads the venom of further conflict and has been a major contributor to our prolonged tragedy."

Remind me why I should be interested in the opinion of a criminal?

Several people had mentioned Ulster Resistance and the Third Force as proof that Paisley was involved in terrorism but I don't remember any terrorist attacks carried out by either group.

Getting lots of armed men (or men with FACs) to stand in a field and listen to speeches as a demonstration of intent has been a part of unionist politics since 1912.

What I am getting at here is that the man obviously had sympathy for these organisations, else he would have denounced them as he did the RA. And sure it seems that no direct link can connect him to terrorism. However, as I have said before, his hate filled speeches , his anti-Catholic rhetoric, his efforts to keep the Catholic people oppressed and the huge influence he once had in loyalist circles make him guilty of terrorism by association. For if he, and the loyalists, had granted Catholics their civil rights in the 1960s, there would have been no need for violence.

BTW, just because a man is a criminal, does not invalidate every thing he says. After all, Hitller was right about Chamberlain, was he not?

Originally Posted by KevinB

As I was not at the bookshop, I could not say if the threat was made to pull the tricolour down regularly, but it wouldn't be beyond imagination to see Paisley threatening such a thing.

He definetly threatened to take it down if the Police wouldn't (because under the legislation of the time it was illegal to have to have it there) but he only did it once as the Police removed it. Gerry and the boys promptly rioted for 2 days.

Originally Posted by KevinB

However, what I am sure influenced Adams the most was, as I said, the instituitionalised prejudice that Catholics faced in NI. If this discrimination had been dealt with in the 1960s, I do think the Troubles could have been averted.

No argument with that.