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Originally Posted by Von1Papen

I never got why they scrapped so much kit which was fine to begin with.Especially with the terrain of afghanistan and seeing the fire support postion in 'ross kemp in afghanistan' made me think that the accurate and hardhitting bren woulda been great, conservative on ammo too.

Personally i think the arms industry is going to have to rethink some of its weaponary, peacetime means that lots of gucci looking uber complicated wonder guns are created, which of course are far to expensive and unrealible for a long war which afghanistan seems to be.

Some of the best weapons systems or concepts have been born out of actual combat expereince, on what is actually needed and if afghanistan goes on longer i wonder if this may happen.

vp

It's called the Military Industrial complex. Interesting reading. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_industrial_complex]


Take the US, Military Superpower = large military spending (est 15% US economy military spending) = Strong Economy. To maintain and justify the large military spending you must have a WAR which results in more military spending = Military Superpower = Strong Economy and so on. With 15% of the economy in military spending then no politician is going to push for a spending cut as this would lead to job loses = political suicide. Ain’t going to happen.

As a politician, to keep yourself popular you want a strong economy = large military spending, to maintain and justify the large military spending you must have a WAR. Every President since Eisenhower has had his WAR.

Economy, Politics, Military Spending. Take any one of the 3 out and the other 2 will fail.

That is why we continually “upgrade” kit even if it ain’t broke.

Carter didnt really have much of a war, more a series of cock ups on the intelligence front. Ike was against the industrial military complex as a means of forcing undemocratic changes.

Ike was ignored. He used his speach to warn against going along this path and why the US should in fact disarm it's military after WW2

Yup!

As someone (a civvie) who works in the UK automotive industry, I can tell you that 'Just in time' is basically a failed concept. If you run things that close in a complex system, you will ALWAYS struggle to maintain output, as one part of other will have 'issues'.

OK, companies do try to minimise the ammount of stock they carry, but JIT is only used for very large items which are manufatured closed to the main assembly plant.

Members of this government should be charged with criminal negligence for allowing this country to get to the position where we cannot maufacture the essential items of warfare. Ammo, uniforms, weapons, explosives ... must be available from local sources upon which the state can exercise complete control in time of war. (LIKE NOW)

This government has got us into the situation where we are absolutely reliant on other countries for the very basics of national defence.

as i say, criminal negligence.

Ski.

Originally Posted by Brick

Vickers machine gun - Queen of the battlefield.

I thought that was MDN

mdn is probably "other" of the battlefield

guns ammo and uniforms should be made in house not difficult

Originally Posted by EX_STAB

Yes. It went to Heckler and Koch which also meant that it breached the confidentiality agreement with FN Herstal (who designed it) that stipulated that the design drawings and specifications not be made available to any party outside of the UK.

.......not quite the full story. ROF passed the rights on to BAe. BAe sold to H & K. Manroy still does some GPMG work. Think MoD may be looking at competing repairs etc to bring FN back into the fold.

Originally Posted by Pluvia_Plumbum

The MOD defence procurement is proceeding as though we are still at Peace A full five years after we committed to ops in Iraq. The Gubmint funding by Broon is strangling the supply chain though lack of cash for everything from vehicles to Helos to yes MMG and HMG spares.

Given the intesity of what the guys on the ground are doing every day its hardly surprising that the kit is getting worn out now is it?


Brown and his ministers should be put in the dock over this catastophy.

Rubbish! Many IPTs are on a wartime footing and have been for the last 5 years. Somebody's been buying all those UORs!

Spend on UORs in the last five financial years

Financial year Approval cost £ million
2002-03 500
2003-04 180
2004-05 130
2005-06 260
2006-07 790

Total 1,860

Source: Select Committee on Defence Fifth Report