Thread: UK To introduce point-based system for immigration

From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7129187.stm#graph

Originally Posted by BBC Website story

UK bans non-EU unskilled workers
Unskilled workers from non-EU countries will be banned from taking jobs in the UK for the "foreseeable future", the government has announced.
Spouses who apply for entry to the UK may also have to sit English language assessments under new proposals.

The moves come as ministers unveil details of their new points-based system for migrants.

About 12,000 unskilled migrants from non-EU countries in Africa, America and Asia came to work in the UK last year.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith is setting out the proposals, which come into force in 100 days' time, in a speech at the London School of Economics.

She is expected to say that immigration policy should not just be about economics but should also take into account the wider impact on society.


How points system will work for high skilled migrants
In moves aimed at strengthening "British values," she will propose a clampdown on forced marriages, English tests for spouses applying to enter the UK and tighter restrictions on convicted criminals gaining citizenship.

It comes ahead of the launch of an Australian-style points-based immigration system in April next year.

Points

Immigration Minister Liam Byrne earlier set out how the system would work for the top tier of highly skilled migrants, which he defined as those who are "key contributors" to the UK economy.

They include people who work in "financial and public services, education and health, ICT and business".

There are no restrictions on people from EU countries coming to work in the UK.

But those from outside the EU will have to pass a number of tests to prove their value to the British economy.

People applying for a visa as a Highly Skilled Migrant will be awarded points based on their qualifications, age, previous salary or the amount of money they are planning to invest in the economy.

For example, someone aged under 30 with a PhD will automatically gain the 75 points necessary to gain entry, regardless of how much they are earning.

But ordinary graduates who have not gone on to further study would need to be earning a minimum of £40,000 to gain entry.

Successful highly skilled applicants will need to have passed a test in English, equivalent to GCSE Grade C or above.

They will be able to bring wives, partners and children to the UK, who will be able to take jobs, as dependants of successful applicants.

Business community

But if dependants want to apply to be in the UK in their own right they will have to leave the country to make an application.


How points system for graduates will work
Details of the points system for skilled workers, students and temporary workers will be announced next year.

But Mr Byrne said plans to include unskilled workers in the points based system had been shelved "for the foreseeable future".

Mr Byrne denied the move would lead to labour shortages in the construction and other industries, he said: "We think Britain's needs for low-skilled workers can be fulfilled from within the EU."

But he said voters' concerns about immigration and its impact on communities had been taken into account, adding: "We are not running immigration policy in the exclusive interest of the British business community".

Mr Byrne said a "greater sense of shared protections and shared values should be a necessary condition of citizenship".

But he said it was important to "strike a balance" between economic needs and the wider impact of immigration on communities.

Mr Byrne said he doubted banning non-EU migrants would be "pain free" and stressed that it would be kept under review by an independent panel.

EU laws

The number of unskilled migrants from outside the EU is already restricted, with only about 12,000 permitted to take jobs in the UK in the past year under existing sector-based and agricultural schemes.

That will be reduced to zero, with all migrant jobs in low skilled sectors going to workers from Bulgaria and Romania.

According to official figures, 234,000 migrant workers from the EU in 2006, mainly from Eastern European countries such as Poland - of which about 40% are thought to be low skilled.

Asked if the new restrictions should not also apply to eastern Europeans, Mr Byrne said Britain was bound by EU laws on the free movement of labour.

Forced marriage

The Home Office earlier published a consultation paper on making it a condition of entry that spouses who apply for visas to join husband or wife in the UK should have to pass a basic English test.

Around 47,000 spouses were admitted to the UK last year.

On forced marriage, there are proposals to raise the age at which a person can sponsor or be sponsored to come to the UK for marriage is raised from 18 to 21.

The rules on deporting convicted criminals will also be tightened-up so that no-one with an unspent conviction - in effect anyone who has been jailed for more than 30 months - will be given citizenship.

ENTRY TO UK FOR HIGHLY-SKILLED MIGRANTSAll categories except Investors require EnglishCategory Specific criteria
General Qualifications
Previous earnings
Age
UK experience
Entrepreneurs £200,000 held in regulated financial institution and disposable in UK
Investors £1m held in regulated financial institution and disposable in UK
Post-study work Eligible qualification
Eligible UK institution
Obtained while holding student leave or as dependant
Apply within 12 months of qualifying
Source: Home Office



Closing the gate after the horse has bolted?

A similar system exists in Canada.

Originally Posted by mr.fawlty

A similar system exists in Canada.

And they dont have any issues at all with immegration

The thing is that skilled, educated immigrants are required, but then their skills, education and experience are not recognised in Canada, where jobs require Canadian education and experience.

Originally Posted by mr.fawlty

The thing is that skilled, educated immigrants are required, but then their skills, education and experience are not recognised in Canada, where jobs require Canadian education and experience.

I was being facestious (spl?) - The trouble with this is that it will have no effect on the Easty Beasties from the EU due to freedom of movement regulations

I doubt this will ever be implimented.

What about asylum seekers and plain illegal immigrants that still manage to get in?.

Even if the govt try to expel these,some legal-aid lawyer will go to court to block any expulsion.

It's the same with anything from New liarbore-all smoke and mirrors-or just plain downright lies.

It's suited them to have unmandated untrammelled immigration for years,and I do not see it ending any time soon.

I'd like to be proven wrong on this,and immigration is restricted,but I very much doubt it.

New liarbore knows where it's votes are likely to come from in the next election.

We got briefed on this a few months ago. It sounds fine in theory, until you get to the implementation and you realise just how inflexible it is. And also what a bloody con.

They've basically handed a massive amount of work over to the sponsors in that the organisation wishing to bring an international into the UK has to do the bulk of the legwork for them. First you have to become an authorised sponsor (for a fee) with a limit on the number of sponsorships you can offer (the higher the number the higher the fee).

Then, you have to issue each applicant an electronic certificate (for another fee) which the applicant needs to receive (upon payment of a fee) and take with them to their visa interview in their country of origin (for which they pay a fee). If their visa application is unsuccessful (and we've all seen how blatantly subjective these things can be, a la Pun VC), the certificates immediately expire (oh, by the way, all fees paid to date are non-refundable).

And here's the other wrinkle. Only one certificate can be live for any applicant at a time, the certificate can only be used once, for the purpose for which it's issued, for the specific DTG for which it was issued. So if the applicant can't make it due to compassionate grounds or simply environmental factors (weather, earthquake, air-traffic controllers' strike), the certificate is no longer valid and we all have to go through it again. With, of course, the payment of the appropriate fees by all parties.

Now, you might think that well and good when someone's applying for a job - one employer, one applicant, one vacancy. In HEI, things are a bit different. We're handling a massive volume of applications for International (non-EU) Students, thousands per year, some of which might be coming into the UK specifically for the purpose of learning to speak English properly. Now to my mind, that kind of blows out the argument about needing appropriate language qualifications to enter the UK. I’m led to believe that this model is a work in progress, but the briefers left me in no doubt they didn’t have a Scooby about how this would effect us or how likely it was that the system could accommodate us.

International Students also tend to apply for more than one University, just the same as our own kids do through UCAS. But they can only get one certificate at a time and if they've applied in advance of their final degree results (again like our kids do), they’re only able to get a certificate at the last minute when they know they've met the entry requirements laid out in their offer of a place. This is all squeezing the maximum amount of work into what's already the busiest time of year for the universities, the students and the Entry Clearance Officers in country.

Tough shit, you might think. A small price to pay to secure our borders. Except that it only applies to those who use the legal route; except that it doesn’t apply to Asylum Seekers; except that Education & Training is one of the few sectors left in which the UK genuinely has a world-beating product. According to the Higher Education Policy Institute (HEPI) report here, HEI has an income multiplier of between 1.5 and 2.52 – that is to say for every £1 spent on University fees, at least 50p is generated elsewhere. Bare minimum, in 2004-05, international students (i.e. non-EU) paid £1.5bn in tuition fees alone, not counting food, accommodation, entertainment and other basic maintenance expenses which they’re buying from UK businesses and paying for in hard currency.

So why should a student come to study in UK when it’s so damn difficult and expensive to get here in the first place, when currency exchange rates make affordability so uncertain, and when there’re plenty of places around the world where you can get nearly as good an education, in English, at lower cost and probably nearer to home? The obvious answer is, perhaps you shouldn’t. The cost/benefit equation doesn’t tip as firmly in our favour anymore.

Oh, and incidentally, the only similarity between this model and the Oz & Canuck ones is that the candidates are assessed on points. The actual implementation is far more accessible there, not to mention friendly.

So let me get this right. We had around 12,000 last year and they want to LIMIT that, say only half get through, hell, say only 1,000 get through. That stops 11,000 coming in.
Last year did we not have around 250,000 from the EU?
Are they doing anything about them?
Oh no sorry EU states this that and the other so do as you are told UK......

Drop in the ocean.......waste of time and money.....

Horse, Bolt, Stable Door etc etc

Originally Posted by SparkySteve

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith... is expected to say that immigration policy should not just be about economics but should also take into account the wider impact on society.

Really? Crikey, she's a very clever woman. None of the tax-paying indigenous population had worked that out!

Originally Posted by mr.fawlty

A similar system exists in Canada.

Yeah and it works so well over here too.

Mr Sheen
Parade Gloss
Turtlewax.........



.....Thats the only polish I know

Originally Posted by smartascarrots

We got briefed on this a few months ago. It sounds fine in theory, until you get to the implementation and you realise just how inflexible it is. And also what a bloody con.

They've basically handed a massive amount of work over to the sponsors in that the organisation wishing to bring an international into the UK has to do the bulk of the legwork for them. First you have to become an authorised sponsor (for a fee) with a limit on the number of sponsorships you can offer (the higher the number the higher the fee).

Then, you have to issue each applicant an electronic certificate (for another fee) which the applicant needs to receive (upon payment of a fee) and take with them to their visa interview in their country of origin (for which they pay a fee). If their visa application is unsuccessful (and we've all seen how blatantly subjective these things can be, a la Pun VC), the certificates immediately expire (oh, by the way, all fees paid to date are non-refundable).

And here's the other wrinkle. Only one certificate can be live for any applicant at a time, the certificate can only be used once, for the purpose for which it's issued, for the specific DTG for which it was issued. So if the applicant can't make it due to compassionate grounds or simply environmental factors (weather, earthquake, air-traffic controllers' strike), the certificate is no longer valid and we all have to go through it again. With, of course, the payment of the appropriate fees by all parties.

Now, you might think that well and good when someone's applying for a job - one employer, one applicant, one vacancy. In HEI, things are a bit different. We're handling a massive volume of applications for International (non-EU) Students, thousands per year, some of which might be coming into the UK specifically for the purpose of learning to speak English properly. Now to my mind, that kind of blows out the argument about needing appropriate language qualifications to enter the UK. I’m led to believe that this model is a work in progress, but the briefers left me in no doubt they didn’t have a Scooby about how this would effect us or how likely it was that the system could accommodate us.

International Students also tend to apply for more than one University, just the same as our own kids do through UCAS. But they can only get one certificate at a time and if they've applied in advance of their final degree results (again like our kids do), they’re only able to get a certificate at the last minute when they know they've met the entry requirements laid out in their offer of a place. This is all squeezing the maximum amount of work into what's already the busiest time of year for the universities, the students and the Entry Clearance Officers in country.

Tough shit, you might think. A small price to pay to secure our borders. Except that it only applies to those who use the legal route; except that it doesn’t apply to Asylum Seekers; except that Education & Training is one of the few sectors left in which the UK genuinely has a world-beating product. According to the Higher Education Policy Institute (HEPI) report here, HEI has an income multiplier of between 1.5 and 2.52 – that is to say for every £1 spent on University fees, at least 50p is generated elsewhere. Bare minimum, in 2004-05, international students (i.e. non-EU) paid £1.5bn in tuition fees alone, not counting food, accommodation, entertainment and other basic maintenance expenses which they’re buying from UK businesses and paying for in hard currency.

So why should a student come to study in UK when it’s so damn difficult and expensive to get here in the first place, when currency exchange rates make affordability so uncertain, and when there’re plenty of places around the world where you can get nearly as good an education, in English, at lower cost and probably nearer to home? The obvious answer is, perhaps you shouldn’t. The cost/benefit equation doesn’t tip as firmly in our favour anymore.

Oh, and incidentally, the only similarity between this model and the Oz & Canuck ones is that the candidates are assessed on points. The actual implementation is far more accessible there, not to mention friendly.

You are right. The UK has always been cnuts towards students - raising visa fees to astronomical levels for no justifiable reason etc. Very odd behaviour given that international students are probably the most lucrative immigrant the country has. They are however, easy targets; no one is going to ditch their studies in the 2nd/3rd year because some incompetent govt department decided to be c unts.

I think this is a waste of money.

The previous system worked - the problem was not the processes in place. It is the standards that those processess imposed that might be said to be the problem.

As far as non-eu citizens are concerned, the UK is already one of the more difficult countries to immigrate to. The govt however, being lazy and incompetent, needs to look as if it is doing something. So it introduces nonsensical measures like a 'citizenship test' that everyone must take. Clearly, the more logical thing would be to simply go by IELTs or GCSE grades but nooooo...let's have a citizenship test.

The points system is not a magic bullet. It is simply another way of calculating eligibility. I see no reason to trumpet the change or to see its adoption as a positive measure.

The Kazakhstani Government demands a degree for any foreign bastardo working within their borders. We're a bit behind the curve, it seems...