Thread: MOD/Navy: Pers allowed / not allowed to sell stories.

J'Accuse! Top General lambasts 'moral cowardice' of government and military chiefs


Extraordinary article by General Sir Michael Rose, who is hopping mad about Blair and the New Labour Top Brass:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

At the heart of the fiasco, he says, is a corruption of the military ethos and a loss of moral authority because of the war in Iraq.

Rose opposed the Iraq war from the start, and says that he would have resigned rather than signed up to it, as General Sir Mike Jackson did when he was Chief of the General Staff.

He declines explicitly to criticise Jackson.

"I don’t know what position he was in, or what pressures he was under. All I know is that I would not have been prepared to sign up to that war in Iraq if I had been in his position. I would have resigned. That is all I can say."..........

.......I am amazed that the Navy hasn’t had a Board of Inquiry about what happened. Who put them in that situation? They should be held responsible.

"But then, they have made it impossible to do so by treating the returnees as heroes and innocents. Who put them in that situation? They should be held responsible. It is difficult to do once you have had a hero’s return."

Rose believes pressure from Downing Street helped cause the confusion and breakdown of command.

"If this had been solely controlled by the military - in other words, if there had been no political interference - the soldiers would have been taken from the aircraft, straight into secure accommodation.

"There would have been an initial inquiry into what had happened: if there had been any blame attributed, negligence or failure to comply with standard operation procedures, then charges would have been brought.".....

......Worst of all has been the "slithering" of Tony Blair.

Rose accuses him of being disingenuous about defence spending and of misleading Parliament about the reasons for going to war in Iraq.

"If Blair had been a director of Enron (the American energy firm which spectacularly collapsed in 2001 after massive accountacy fraud), he would be doing 40 years," says Rose crisply.

"Iraq has been such a serious setback to Britain’s standing in the world, Blair should be held accountable in Parliament. He cannot just walk away from this in a few weeks’ time."

On that note, Rose strides off into the spring sunshine, his affability restored. One would not wish to get on the wrong side of General Sir Michael Rose, especially if one were the Prime Minister.

Excellent article - a man of integrity and leadership and character.

Rose for PM, Dannat for Deputy!!

Yes, an excellent article. More power to General Sir Michael.

'Slither' Blair... That's a good one.

oooh its all coming out.....

MoD ignored Press watchdog's offer to help captives

The Ministry of Defence ignored an offer by the press watchdog to intervene to prevent the Navy captives being pursued by the media even before they left Iran.

The Press Complaints Commission warned the MoD last week that the return of the 15 personnel would turn into a media circus that would require careful management.

An offer by the PCC to telephone newspapers and urge them to stay away from the homes of the service personnel was spurned, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

Two emails, complete with a 24-hour emergency telephone number for the hostages' families, were sent to the MoD detailing the industry's harassment code. They were not acknowledged.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../13/navy13.xml

Tell me just what do you have to do to get sacked at the MoD?

Well if even half of what the torygraph says, turns out too be true it just confirms that Liabour had them set up for the fall from the off.

Why am i not surprised!

Originally Posted by armchair_jihad

oooh its all coming out.....

MoD ignored Press watchdog's offer to help captives

The Ministry of Defence ignored an offer by the press watchdog to intervene to prevent the Navy captives being pursued by the media even before they left Iran.

The Press Complaints Commission warned the MoD last week that the return of the 15 personnel would turn into a media circus that would require careful management.

An offer by the PCC to telephone newspapers and urge them to stay away from the homes of the service personnel was spurned, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

Two emails, complete with a 24-hour emergency telephone number for the hostages' families, were sent to the MoD detailing the industry's harassment code. They were not acknowledged.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../13/navy13.xml

Tell me just what do you have to do to get sacked at the MoD?

"What's that Des, the PCC are offering to keep our redtop people away from the families ? No - for Mamon's sake stop them from doing that !"

"But why oh Glorious one ?"

"Look I know you've not got a navy back in Zurich, but we've got to make them look like cnuts - if there's a blackout on stories from the families we won't be able to."

"Errrr, do we want to do that my Beloved Leader ?"

"I knew you were thick or I wouldn't have given you the job, but FFS think about it ! If the dirty proles keep their respect for these outdated institutions I won't command their full obeisance, which is the whole purpose of government.
Besides, we've been doing this to the army for twelve years, now it's the sailors' turn."

"Your wish is my command, Your Magnificence."

"Damn right it is !
Um, you haven't got another set of wheels for my eldest have you ? The little tyke keeps crashing them while pissed."






Legal disclaimer.
Any resemblance to persons living or (preferably) dead is purely coincidental.
Anyone who thinks they may see a simlarity should get a grip and think !

And...

The suggestion by the Defence Secretary that it was solely a Royal Navy decision was thrown into confusion by the emergence of Whitehall documents which suggested that interview requests must be cleared by the Ministry of Defence before a decision is taken.

If guidelines that were brought in after the death of the government scientist David Kelly were followed, it would mean that Mr Browne’s officials would have been involved in the decision.

The rules are contained in the Whitehall document Defence Council Instructions General

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1648686.ece

Without wanting to risk the wrath of the MODs, I'm assuming that had if Lt Wales found himself taken hostage in the same circumstances, releaased under the same circumstances, etc. that the government would have been quoting the PCC chaptor and verse. Or would the public's "need to know" and "the stories coming out anyway" routine been trotted out in the same way. I doubt it.

I'm struggling here to find anyone that comes out of the whole matter with any merit.

General Sir Michael Rose's comments are a welcome reminder of the standards, ethos and values that our armed forces have previously been justly proud of. It is despairing the position that damage that has been done by this government, through ignorance, egotism and greed.

fcuking threaders with this whole sordid business now :(

Originally Posted by quickstop

Excellent article - a man of integrity and leadership and character.

Rose for PM, Dannat for Deputy!!

And......... 'INTELLECT' above those you listed. He's one very sharp fecker!!

Thanks for the link A_J, some interesting comments there.

Originally Posted by The Times

The suggestion by the Defence Secretary that it was solely a Royal Navy decision was thrown into confusion by the emergence of Whitehall documents which suggested that interview requests must be cleared by the Ministry of Defence before a decision is taken.

...

The Ministry of Defence press office refused to comment on the apparent contradiction. An official said: “There is a review going on at the moment and it is not helpful to get into the question of who knew what when.�
...

Downing Street said last night: “As has already been made clear, no one in No 10 — either the press office or officials — had anything to do with decisions taken by the Navy regarding their personnel receiving payments for media interviews. In addition, no one in No 10 had any involvement in the negotiations around those interviews."

...

Despite Tony Blair’s insistence that he knew nothing about the decision until it had been made, unsubstantiated claims have persisted that No 10 must have been involved in negotiations with newspapers that wanted to buy the sailors’ accounts.

...

With the Government facing pressure from the Tories and the media to explain how the decision was taken, No 10 took the unusual step of issuing a statement to underline that it had no role. That put responsibility squarely at the door of the Navy, with Mr Browne facing strong criticism for going along with its decision.

...

David Cameron accused the Government of being in “complete confusion�. William Hague, the Shadow Foreign Secretary, said he did not believe that the “full picture� had yet emerged.

He told the BBC Radio 4 programme Today: “It seems strange to us that No 10 did not have a greater involvement in this. In a very centralised administration where No 10 are routinely consulted by all government departments, it seems very odd that the Prime Minister read of this in the Sunday newspapers, they say, when David Cameron and I and Liam Fox all knew about this on Saturday.�

(My bold throughout)

Originally Posted by bob_lawlaw

Originally Posted by quickstop

Excellent article - a man of integrity and leadership and character.

Rose for PM, Dannat for Deputy!!

And......... 'INTELLECT' above those you listed. He's one very sharp fecker!!

Wait a minute, Bliar too is very sharp.
He just doesn't have any of the other qualities.

I bet Mike Coburn (Kiwi SAS) is kicking himself after the trouble he went to to get `Soldier Five` published. Strewth! Theres agendas everywhere these days!

I don't see how they have been allowed to sell there story.
They are not the first people to be held captive and sadly they prob won't be the last.
They should thank there lucky stars that they got out alive as most don't.
I for one also believe that what happens in the forces should not be publised in news papers.
Perhaps we should go back in time when the public new nothing about what happened in the forces.

Originally Posted by Cutaway

Originally Posted by bob_lawlaw

Originally Posted by quickstop

Excellent article - a man of integrity and leadership and character.

Rose for PM, Dannat for Deputy!!

And......... 'INTELLECT' above those you listed. He's one very sharp fecker!!

Wait a minute, Bliar too is very sharp.
He just doesn't have any of the other qualities.

He needs to be sharp (just like the knife he uses to stabbing the military in the back)