It was said that Helen of Troy had a face that launched a thousand ships.
Our own chain smoking Jenny Wren had a face that ate a thousand chips!!!!







Taxi!!!!

[quote="Dr_Nick_Riviera"]Every time I see this on the news (about every ten minutes at the moment), I just find myself shaking my head in disbelief.

Just like all those families of lads on lasses on board the ship and currently in Iraq and Afghan. No individual should make financial gain and all this money needs to be given to Benevolant funds for all service personnel killed and maimed. I've seen lots of lads with limb injuries and been to a funeral of oneyoung lad in last 8 months but these are the forgotten heros. I realise it was hard for the marines/ navy personnel but the amount of spin the uk and Iranian govertments have done has made our lives more dangerous now I feel.

Originally Posted by PartTimePongo

Makes you wonder if there is a case for rebuilding and deploying Brave-Class boats, or going back even earlier and building Vosper or even Elco or Higgins type boats , powered by Falconer V-12's?

Ok I'll admit it, I like PT boats, but why not?

Unlikely too happen though that would show some forethought, something that isnt budgeted in to 'conflict lite'(TM) operations.

Im sure that we would BUY some if a liabour focus group put it foward as a vote winner i forthcomeing local election.

Originally Posted by whitecity

Originally Posted by Dr_Nick_Riviera

Originally Posted by nigegilb

The brass could make a start right now and sack the Captain of Cornwall and the Comodore on board. Completely incompetent both of them. Next the idiot who authorised the selling of stories to the press should resign forthwith. We are the humiliation of the world, and it is time for arrse kicking, it should not be left to a BoI. We are truly a laughing stock.

A bit early to start apportioning blame, don't you think, especially with relation to Cornwall's crew? Surely better to let a BoI - an impartial BoI, that is - decide that? Slightly off-thread, but I do have to question the suitability of HMS Cornwall to support this kind of operation, especially if one of the major perceived threats in those disputed waters is heavily-armed fast-attack craft; once its Lynx was off-station, that boarding party was on its own, and woefully out-gunned.

Maybe, but...

Whose decision was it to 'allow' the boarding party to leave the merchant vessel without the Lynx support?

Or, if that's standard practice, who wrote the SOPs that allow a pathetically equipped team to be left so isolated so close to known harm?

Who wrote the ROEs that encourage a boarding party to 'surrender' so willingly in 'friendly' waters whereas a firefight in Iraqi waters would have been a major embarrasment to Iran, not so? (Assumes, of course, that the incident actually occured in undisputed Iraqi waters.)

How was it that there was an instant - and catestrophic - failure of all communications (allegedly) at the exact moment the boarding was completed?

How is it that the Iranians seem able to locate, track and intercept our small craft in Iraqi waters (allegedly) - but we had no knowledge of their craft?

Answers please, when you're ready.

They are all very easy questions for the navy to answer. And it is possible to answer all of them with one word - shambles. These ops have been suspended by the RN for the moment. Other nations are continuing. As this is the 2nd incident of this kind in 3 years it would appear to me that the RN has a problem with its learning curve. The OiC has already said he ordered his men to make ready, he could have fired, he made that plain. He was lightly armed, in poorly defended rubber boats with no top cover and an all seeing eye on the Cornwall that saw nothing. The "15" do not appear to have completed a conduct after capture course, even though they were right in the front line and a precedent existed for this kind of capture. The whole thing is a bloody shambles and a humiliation. I fail to see that retaining the services of the Captain or Comodore is going to help the RN going forward. And it would make a change for someone to accept responsibility.

Originally Posted by whitecity

Originally Posted by Dr_Nick_Riviera

Originally Posted by nigegilb

The brass could make a start right now and sack the Captain of Cornwall and the Comodore on board. Completely incompetent both of them. Next the idiot who authorised the selling of stories to the press should resign forthwith. We are the humiliation of the world, and it is time for arrse kicking, it should not be left to a BoI. We are truly a laughing stock.

A bit early to start apportioning blame, don't you think, especially with relation to Cornwall's crew? Surely better to let a BoI - an impartial BoI, that is - decide that? Slightly off-thread, but I do have to question the suitability of HMS Cornwall to support this kind of operation, especially if one of the major perceived threats in those disputed waters is heavily-armed fast-attack craft; once its Lynx was off-station, that boarding party was on its own, and woefully out-gunned.

Maybe, but...

Whose decision was it to 'allow' the boarding party to leave the merchant vessel without the Lynx support?

Or, if that's standard practice, who wrote the SOPs that allow a pathetically equipped team to be left so isolated so close to known harm?

Who wrote the ROEs that encourage a boarding party to 'surrender' so willingly in 'friendly' waters whereas a firefight in Iraqi waters would have been a major embarrasment to Iran, not so? (Assumes, of course, that the incident actually occured in undisputed Iraqi waters.)

How was it that there was an instant - and catestrophic - failure of all communications (allegedly) at the exact moment the boarding was completed?

How is it that the Iranians seem able to locate, track and intercept our small craft in Iraqi waters (allegedly) - but we had no knowledge of their craft?

Answers please, when you're ready.

Whitecity, I don’t know the specific answers to your questions, but I agree with you in the main – I think the procedures under which these boarding parties operate need a severe examination. I would love to see the “actions on” part of the brief they got before they set out on 23 March (especially "actions on the unexpected RTB of air cover"). However, given the seriousness of the events that began on that date, any long-term recommendations must surely come from a BoI? However, if immediate steps can be taken to resume boarding operations but prevent a similar occurrence anytime in the future, then I’m all for them.

I am pretty sure though, that despite the supposed fanaticism of IRGC Navy personnel, a bigger RN ship/ships (with bigger guns!) in close proximity to the RIBs would have gone a long way to deterring any aggressive actions.

PTP – aren’t there PT boats (of a sort) tied up with “for sale” signs on them in Portsmouth dockyard?

This story should have been closed when the 15 got back to the UK the other day. The next lot taken by the Iranians will not be getting home after two weeks.

News flash just announced.

MoD has now banned all service personel from speaking to the media.

Apparently when they do its a PR disaster.

Originally Posted by nigegilb

And it would make a change for someone to accept responsibility.

Couldn't agree more - but how high up the food chain do you think this will go? Can you honestly see any ministers carrying the can for it? If Cornwall and those RIBs aren't fit for purpose but they're all that the Navy has got, whose fault is that? (or is that the world's most obvious rhetorical question!?).

Originally Posted by REG002

This story should have been closed when the 15 got back to the UK the other day. The next lot taken by the Iranians will not be getting home after two weeks.

Totally agree i dread to think of what is going to happen to anyone now who is taken hostage. It would be good to get impartial comments from the rest of their crew who are still out there what they think about thm financially gaining from this. The press must realise that everytime they show things on news reports like the Basra incidents last year it puts our lads and lasses more at risk.

OK, before I start I'm not in the best position to comment: I'm not serving.

However, I was disgusted at the stories being sold to the media. No stories should be sold to the media by individuals while in service. Those selling their stories for a quick buck (even if up to £100,000) should find themselves without a career - and the money and trishas etc will dry up very quickly.

To those that have sold their story: I hope very much that every single penny goes to armed forces charities to help those who have truely lost someone. You came back; some families don't have the pleasure of that happening.

I've been defending their actions when taken and whilst in captivity everytime I've spoken to someone. Put simply they were suprised, caught at the worst time, totally out-gunned and fighting back would have caused a massive international incident (what's to say we wouldn't now be at war with Iran and south Iraq kicking off at us?). At the end of the day they did what was needed to come home safe.

Now - well I'm not going to defend them to anyone unless their actions reflect the values, standards and ethos of the armed forces (of which I am aware).

Disappointed

edited to add that she sold her story to The Sun. How low can you get? The Scum have repeatedly shown themselves to show a complete lack of loyalty to the forces. At least with a "proper" paper you may not be playing the "celebrity I'm a hostage get me out of here" card - by asking for an intelligent article not designed for quick impact of little value