C-T

Good post.

US on UK fratricide raises a lot of emotions here (and I can understand there are a number of reasons culturally & historically why), but fratricide is a risk of warfare, and occurs UK on UK as well. (Its not hugely popular in these instances either to be honest).

Sanchauk - I know it is semantics, but I disagree with avoiding the word 'accident'. Whilst every effort should be made to identify lessons to mitigate against recurrence (and implement these), by moving away from the concept of 'accident' we move towards 'blame'. Blame may sometimes be appropriate, but not always and a culture of blame is not healthy for any organisation, particularly one involved in fighting wars.

'US to let friendly fire video be seen'

It seems that the US Investigation into the incident did not find any thing wrong>Article

Picking this one a bit late in the thread but, I am totally horrified that the MOD has denied the footage's existence to this poor chaps widow for the past 3 years. It goes beyond insulting and I utterly repudiate the fatherless who believe is is right and proper to hide the truth.

What else may we ask is being hushed away under so called "secret" classification.

Once again, I am offended & disappointed at this establishments dishonesty.

RIP Lance Corporal of Horse Matty Hull - I hope the truth will soon be available.

C_T: Good points, and after reading your post and the thread, i agree with you.
Its a utterley terrible accident, but thats all it is, an accident. They happen. Regrettable the way LCoH Hull's family was treated, but that seems to be the norm for MoD....
The tape should have been released long, long ago. If unedited (How likely is that?) then it is a brilliant peice of evidence, it shows the failings of an antiqued system that is in dire need of upgrading. Why the fcuk haven't we got IFF on our Warriors yet?

Sanchauk - I know it is semantics, but I disagree with avoiding the word 'accident'. Whilst every effort should be made to identify lessons to mitigate against recurrence (and implement these), by moving away from the concept of 'accident' we move towards 'blame'. Blame may sometimes be appropriate, but not always and a culture of blame is not healthy for any organisation, particularly one involved in fighting wars.

Dilfor, There will always be the chinless wonders who want to use these exercises to string people up. I don't like it. And it shouldn't be part of the culture in these types of enquiries unless clear contravention of regulations has been identified. However, they need to happen, and the lessons learnt. The culture needs to change from one of blame to one of acting on lessons learnt.

A common thread to these blue on blue incidents is ANR pilots. What action has the UK taken to edumacate these pilots. A few days AFV recognition course isn't a multimillion dollar procuement plan?

Why are all C/S not visable to US FACs operating with our forces?

Des Browne said the American decision was "good news".

"The release of classified information, even for the closest of allies, is never straightforward, but this is the right thing to do," he said.

"I recognise that this must have been distressing for the Hull family, and I'm glad that we have been able to resolve it."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6334769.stm

What?? After being dragged kicking & screaming to even admit such a tape existed?

Des, even bearing in mind you are a world class plonker and git, I find it hard to read that without wanting to break something and right at this moment it would be your face.

Originally Posted by Blues_Cav

Gentlemen

I do not want to detract from the main topic here but would you please stop referring to Matty Hull as a LCpl. He was not. He was a Household Cavalry, Blue & Royal and a Lance Corporal of Horse (LCoH), a rank of which he like all HCav soldiers are proud of. I know that the media got it wrong but we do not need to make the same mistake.

well said matey

PS

...

Originally Posted by California_Tanker

As for the derision at 'orange missiles', there is precedent.



If you're flying around at 10k feet, and you see this armoured vehicle, might you not describe it as having orange missiles? And as it's an anti-aircraft vehicle, you may not be inclined to perform a low pass. And yes, the Iraqis had them.

C-T, thanks for a very measured and informative post. Particularly interested with the picture above, we can only speculate as to whether the pilots in question will have been aware of the existence of these "orange missiles" or not. If they were, and suspected that such missiles might have been mounted on SA-13 instead of SA-9, then the lack of recognition becomes more understandable (I choose my words carefully) than before. It's clearly not the same, especially in the cold light of day. But in a different light, it is a relatively small, tracked, armoured vehicle with a lump (whether turret or missile boxes) at the back of the hull, painted orange.