Thread: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

[quote="Stonker"]

Originally Posted by Priam

Originally Posted by Stonker

I hope people posting their horror stories on here are replicatiing them on the BBC web page as well.(sorry I haven't a link to post - not yet anyway)
quote]

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...602&#paginator

Mine did not make it through the moderators, even though there was no swearing, ranting or bring me BLiars head on a pike, remarks.

I dunno if the BBC notify you 'you're comment posted/not posted'.

It may be just a matter of time, mate. I heard on the R4 evening news that this story has generated the single biggest response ever (or, maybe in the last year). Either way - it's a busy board: for good or ill, it's stirring people up.

1,602 comments on the article!
Received no emails and its been 4 hours since I submitted my comment!

I've just seen some excellent posts on the comments page. My parents are having a family shindig at the moment, my parents (Dad ex-Navy six years) is ashamed of the way soldiers are treated. The uncle and aunt couldn't give a f*ck from what I can tell. But they go mad if somoene over charges on their prescription. Selfish society anyone?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6230471.stm

Some pictures from the BBC

Didnt catch his name, Frank someone, but he was the expert on the BBC 10 oclock news. Anyway, he used the word "gopping" when describing quarters!
Quality fella............."Gopping" on the news!
Nice one

Frank Gardner - he's an interesting character, who has a lot of time for the Armed Forces. Not sure where he got 'gopping' from, but good on him.

Don

Originally Posted by Bottleosmoke

Didnt catch his name, Frank someone, but he was the expert on the BBC 10 oclock news. Anyway, he used the word "gopping" when describing quarters!
Quality fella............."Gopping" on the news!
Nice one

Ironsides was the arab specialist shot and left for dead unlike his cameraman who couldnt run so fast when the potential raspberry ripple decided to film in a dodgy saudi town. Some expert my ass, I wouldnt trust him to plan a piss up. mind you the wife and I noticed the gopping and were glad, only 20 years out of date.
The MQ we were offered was immaculate (1988 Omagh) full marching in and a family welfare fund to help out for those unexpected costs. We turned it down as Berlin was up next and We (She) thought the 1 bed flat wouldnt be as nice as the 2 bed semi!
To be honest this is mainly down to Co's and QM's not having the balls to fight for their men. My first CO when refusing to pay another toilet unblocking charge for the use of newspaper in a singlies block was adamant that the boxhead turd watcher bring him the allgemeine zeitung in a bag as evidence. It never happened again (the complaint that is). The Q system got a kick for failing on bog roll.

MONG

Originally Posted by Nickhere

Originally Posted by Stonker

2. The British Army is the only one in NATO that moves its people around so frequently that owning your own home is problem. Now, taking aside issues of reality (like how does a married JNCO with a public duties bent, afford to buy a house that's handy for St James Palace or Windsor Castle), wouldn't most Pads like to be home owners, whose kids could get continuity of education and whose wives could have careers?

I agree with all except for that part. The US Army has only just in the last year introduced a program to prevent similar movement, as admitted by themselves in Fiasco by Tom Ricks
Edited to realise that I read your post wrong and I should say that Tom Ricks supports your argument not the other guys. Sorry.

It just seems to me that - instead of bitching about p1ss-poor MQs - military folk should be arguing (now the daze of Empire are over) for a way of life that puts them on a footing close to that of civvies: own house, and 2 career incomes to the household.

Instead of wasting money on sh1t MQs with matching maintenance/cleaning/allocation control staff, spend the money on:
Pay? Living-in accom?

I interviewed a whole busload of Para Offrs/SNCOs in Collie just after they'd moved fm Aldershot (2001?). It was quite clear that 50yrs with a stable 'home' posting hadn't damaged their fighting spirit (while other Teeth-Arms units insisted the constant cycle of the Arms plot was "essential to the maintenance of morale and regimental identity" FFS!).

To the contrary, it had given the Paras families (of NCOs in particular) more stability than any of the other units to whom I spoke in the course of a piece of work that went all over the Army, and - to a man - they were pig sick at being "uprooted".

I look at Naval types with their own homes nr their home naval bases, and RAF types like my pal who managed 15+ yrs in a succession of jobs in the same place, living in his own home in Peterborough.

I just don't think we ought to accept the notion that soldiers have to be housed by the MoD - it will always be a 2nd or 3rd-rate way of doing things.

Frank was/is a TA Jacket/Rifles Officer I believe.

Originally Posted by PartTimePongo

Frank was/is a TA Jacket/Rifles Officer I believe.

Prob'ly finding the BFT a bit tough these days ; more likely was than is. Always comes over (to me at least) as a 1st-rate man.

The long term posting is a boon to the Jncos who are getting married as it doesprovide a future for their wives and kids but what happens when they get sent to the depot (or whatever they call it now!),then the best hope is for the whole regt not just Bn to be within commuting distance which would mean coming back from Germany sometime!
I have noticed with mates who stayed on that they tended to buy a place at home or near a regtl posting, dump wife and sprogs there and hope for some regular rotation through or rent the place out. SNCOs buying are generally leaving it too late unless of course they have a place to sell already.
Either way sod being a first time buyer and when the next rash of MQ disposals come up tie them to a retention contract and not just anyone with 18 yrs in!

Originally Posted by ugly

The long term posting is a boon to the Jncos who are getting married as it does provide a future for their wives and kids but what happens when they get sent to the depot (or whatever they call it now!),then the best hope is for the whole regt not just Bn to be within commuting distance which would mean coming back from Germany sometime!
I have noticed with mates who stayed on that they tended to buy a place at home or near a regtl posting, dump wife and sprogs there and hope for some regular rotation through or rent the place out. SNCOs buying are generally leaving it too late unless of course they have a place to sell already.
Either way sod being a first time buyer and when the next rash of MQ disposals come up tie them to a retention contract and not just anyone with 18 yrs in!

The joy of the Para system seemed to be that they were a Regiment of 3 Bns (not 3 independent Bns, calling themselves a Regt). For a long time, with 2 Bns of the 3 (plus Depot Para) in the 'Shot, a career soldier knew he'd spend 66% or more of his career based there, and - if he had reasons for not going 'out of role', there were fair prospects of an inter-Bn posting. Otherwise, he could do the odd out-of-roll tour as married unaccompanied.

I'll admit, the geographic distribution of Bks in the UK, and in Germany makes it difficult to apply the para model across the board - but it is most definitely worth very close study.

That is, if the Army is serious about retention and recruitment. It just means having to abandon some myths, assumptions and prejudices about "what the troops really want".

Originally Posted by "Stonker It just seems to me that - instead of bitching about p1ss-poor MQs - military folk should be arguing (now the daze of Empire are over) for a way of life that puts them on a footing close to that of civvies: own house, and 2 career incomes to the household.

Instead of wasting money on sh1t MQs with matching maintenance/cleaning/allocation control staff, spend the money on:
Pay? Living-in accom?I just don't think we ought to accept the notion that soldiers [b

have [/b]to be housed by the MoD - it will always be a 2nd or 3rd-rate way of doing things.

Stonker take your point, but part of the attraction of the Army was the ability to occupy decent accomodation, both SLA and SFA. Now our Accn is generally in a poor state (and in some cases absolutely intolerable).

Proper and affordable accommodation is part of our Terms and Conditions of Service - and alway has been; but I think you confuse the argument by suggesting that making soldiers live outside barracks is a viable option, unless of course the service can afford to increase pay to cover the rental charges that will inevitably be required.

Finally in my view what is reqired is a grass roots review of accommodation and sufficient funding to put it right, I simply do accept the amounts quoted by the Twigg person.

Originally Posted by Outstanding

Originally Posted by "Stonker It just seems to me that - instead of bitching about p1ss-poor MQs - military folk should be arguing (now the daze of Empire are over) for a way of life that puts them on a footing close to that of civvies: own house, and 2 career incomes to the household.

Instead of wasting money on sh1t MQs with matching maintenance/cleaning/allocation control staff, spend the money on:
Pay? Living-in accom?I just don't think we ought to accept the notion that soldiers [b

have [/b]to be housed by the MoD - it will always be a 2nd or 3rd-rate way of doing things.

Stonker take your point, but part of the attraction of the Army was the ability to occupy decent accomodation, both SLA and SFA. Now our Accn is generally in a poor state (and in some cases absolutely intolerable).

Proper and affordable accommodation is part of our Terms and Conditions of Service - and alway has been; but I think you confuse the argument by suggesting that making soldiers live outside barracks is a viable option, unless of course the service can afford to increase pay to cover the rental charges that will inevitably be required.

Finally in my view what is reqired is a grass roots review of accommodation and sufficient funding to put it right, I simply do accept the amounts quoted by the Twigg person.

I wasn't suggesting that at all.

Single soldiers living-out was, in fact, foisted on the Paras in Collie (HQ LAND having repeatedly refused to believe the QMs repeated counts of bed-spaces in their former Cav Bks, then had to find the dosh to fund digs for single soldiers, while the in-bks accn was expanded). The livers-out enjoyed it up to a point, but it isolated newcomers and had all sorts of other down-sides.

Pads accn and singlies accn (along with their aspirations) are separate and distinct - but not necessarily clearly understood or articulated by the CoC.

(edited for clarity)

BBC 'Listen Again' link to the item on Thursday's Today programme:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/li...y_20070104.ram

Includes excerpt from Gen Viggers' TV interview; excellent interview with anonymous service wife at Brize Norton; and interview with myself, speaking as Chairman of the new British Armed Forces Federation.

You need RealPlayer to listen on that link. If required we can email an mp3 version - you'll have to join BAFF first ;)

Thanks for all the great support today - especially to today's membership applicants!

Douglas Young