Thread: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Originally Posted by Major_Blink

This is what life is like in Dalton Barracks, Abingdon


The Officers’ Mess needs work to comply with current fire legislation (est 70k), that money has not been found despite it being on a works services priority for the last two years. The consequence has been the closure of a complete wing. The Commanding Officer has to take the health and safety of his officers at risk. The decision point is about to be reached, where the CO has told the chain of command that unless rectification work is started in the next month 35 living-in single officers will be moved into private accommodation in Abingdon, (at a cost in the first 6 months that far exceed the work required to the Mess), needless to say there is rarely any hot water either.

The soldiers are in just as bad accommodation. Only one block is Grade 1, so 150 solders have the ‘jam tomorrow’ promised accommodation. The vast majority live in accommodation not changed since being built in 1932, except that no money has been spent since.

Let me give you just one example of the service we have to put up with and manage in terms of the soldiers expectations. New white goods were purchased under a budgetary funding line to provide new washing machines and dryers for every wing of every block. They arrived brand new, but when they were placed in the accommodation it was found that the plumbing and water pressure in the accommodation could not sustain their usage – so they were withdrawn and remain in our QM’s store! No money to update the plumbing.

We were informed at the beginning of this FY that all works services (ie infrastructure repair) was to be frozen within Abingdon (it actually was much more wide spread within the region). The impact of this was that simple repairs, loo seats, broken showers went un-repaired. I had to explain this to my soldiers. The position changed in the second half of the FY and we now have a slightly improved situation.

Finally the most disgraceful situation is that our medical centre is not fit for purpose. The Army Primary Health Care service has stated that the med centre it is not fit for its clinical need, yet monies needed for refurbishment or replacement do not exist. We have to employ a corporal to drive a mini bus of sick soldiers to Aldershot to be treated in Frimely Park instead. Yet both regiment are trying to generate fit soldiers for Iraq and Afgan next year. Commander Field Army has visited Abingdon, it remains 4 Div’s highest priority, yet all we see are aspirations and promises. I will not discuss the holes in the roads, no lighting across the camp, but guess what the chain of command’s solution is – they are trying to squeeze another Regiment in here in 2008!!

I visited this fine establishment not so long ago.

Correct me if I am wrong but I had been told that a major reason the refurbishment of Abingdon was stopped was that the utility infrastucture of the camp was so old and had so little money spend on it since it was originally put in (when was the camp opened?) that it would not cope with the upgraded accomodation or any of the new buildings required.

I also heard that the correct engineering solution would be to renew the infrastructure completely which was rejected as being too expensive. This of course puts the camp's rebuild state into limbo

Would it prove cheaper in the long run just to tear the place down and start again from stratch?

Timt to bomb MPs with JPEGs and MPEGs and flash a few DVDs around Fleet Street and Health & Safety Executive plus a few channels like CNN and Al-Jazeera

Yes

I think there needs to be a campaign set up, but should it be co-ordinated under BAFF

Don't bother trying to take a shower at RAF Uxbridge from about October onwards every year. At this time they do a routine check for Legionella virus and for the last three years they have had to shut down the whole system whilst it is 'flushed out'. Allegedly, in winter 05/06 there was no hot water in the barrack blocks for almost 3 months.

Not quite the same scale of some of the BBC pictures but indicative that we cannot even afford to maintain the crap we currently have to endure.

Contrast and compare this thread with some of the comments on

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/...ic/t=2154.html
and
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/...c/t=43326.html

Now I am not saying there is a link but it does makes me wonder...

I was interviewed about this on the BBC R4 'Today' programme shortly after 7.30.

Steven

Had a quick look and failed to see what you are getting at. What's your point?

One of the major problems in this area is that great portions of the estate budgets go to paying fees to works contractors like Carillion. In the old days, we had a lumbering public sector estate works organisation called PSA, which worked, if inefficiently, and the costs were more defined (maybe someone will tell me otherwise). Now we have apparent inefficiency and huge fees to the civilian contractors. That's why simple jobs end up costing £2k rather than £100, and why so many important maintenance jobs get prioritised down the calendar. So, how much of that £700M went in fees?

There is another issue with accommodation - charges. The grading system for charges does not allow a board to arrive at a simple opinion that accommodation is simply shite and should be 'ungraded' - eg no charges to pay. The penalty points system is quite comprehensive but rarely are enough points awarded to bring the grade and charges down to a level that matches the "would I want to live in this" criterion. There needs to be a minimum acceptable standard for accommodation, but that aside what really grates singlies (and this does really affect singlies rather than pads) is having to pay for substandard accommodation. I know of plenty of instances where singlies have been (relatively) happy to slum it in exchange for an extra £100 each month. Likewise when individuals are moved from ungraded accommodation into new Grade 1, they are mostly very unhappy.

So, MOD, my suggestion to you is reduce accommodation charges across the board, including for SFA, and waive charges for the substandard SLA. You will find that while the problem does not go away, there will be a lot less complaining and there might then be opportunities to achieve a better resolution than Z type across the board, which most servicemen will never see anyway.

I should add that the hapless unit QM is caught in the middle of all of this, with inadequate resources to achieve much at all. It is the MOD works and estate management system that is at fault, not the units tring to make the most of what they are given.

Originally Posted by Interceptor

My opinion?

Peeling paint and mould, broken doors and ripped carpets should be dealt with immediately by the system. Underinvestment is rife and is shameful.

Dirty baths? Clean it yourselves you fezzing bastards. Who do you think cleans my quarter?

Exactly what I was thinking!

Squaddie: "Look at my bath!"

MOD: "And...?"

BBC: "Ooooh look! That's terrible!"

It is good that this issue is being aired in public as it is clear that the politicians will not listen to reason and the only way to get the necessary funding is for senior military to go public.

Whilst there probably is a plan to upgrade all the accommodation over the next few years, what is criminal is the complete lack of investment for the last 20 years. As such both single and married accommodation has been allowed to deteriorate to such an extent that a greater capital investment is required now, rather than keeping on top of it each year.

The points and grading system for MQs is archaic and doesn't allow common sense to be applied. I had a year long battle to get my MQ downgraded from Grade 2 when the noise was unbearable as it is sandwiched between a v busy dual carriageway, a mainline railway and under an AAC flight path! Eventually persistence paid off but the reduction in charges is not retrospective and is only effective 3 months after the Board Of Officers has published its results!

I've had no heating in my MQ for over a week now other than a gas fire in the living room and an electric heater lent to us by my parents for upstairs. It's been so long since our central heating has been flushed through that the water in the system is so gipping that it has actually starting corroding through the radiators from the inside - four have developed serious leaks since October, including three in a week and a bit over Christmas including one leaking over several Christmas presents the day before Christmas Eve. When I contacted MHS (the new improved, sold off DHE) about the last one, they refused to even send a plumber out to look at it because they weren't authorised to call out an engineer between Christmas and New Year, so I had to get the radiator switched off myself (as in properly switched off, not just turning the control at the end to 'off'). Now my wife's too scared to have the central heating switched on in case another one goes while we're out and causes serious damage to the house or our possessions.

I have particularly 'fond' memories of the R SIGNALS Corps Mess transit Accomodation in Blandford. This consisted of a a portacabin, 6 beds to a room. On the Sunday I pitched up for a career course, I found a bed frame minus half of the springs. Having bodged it together with an MFO box, I placed the pisss-stained mattress on top. Next - locker minus one door and no hanger rail. Carpet stained with pisss and vomit - absolutely rubbish.

Mind the RLC central Mess in Bicester was also a shocker. You can lie on your bed and touch opposite walls with your hands. No curtains, half a locker and the cure for cancer growing on the abloution floors. Absolutely stinking.

Originally Posted by in_the_cheapseats

Steven

Had a quick look and failed to see what you are getting at. What's your point?

There was a time when the block was inspected/maintained by the simple provision of block inspections/self help, now I know this is no use if the walls are falling down etc but it did seem to help.

Now according to some, as highlighted in the other threads, block inspections and the like are infringements on the guys human rights and they are all grown ups etc etc.

I know that this is not the ONLY cause but as I said it just makes me wonder if it is all part of the same problem?

Thoughts?

Let's say that the accommodation was for nurses rather than squaddies. Would the government have acted? I think so.

I have just received an envelope from Def Est with the 2006 Customer Survey (nice timing?!?). I will fill it out accurately and honestly, knowing that you can make statistics say anything. The thing that bugs the heck out of me is that the return envelope is to a Bloody Civvi Data Collecting Agency!!!!!!!! How much is that going to cost just to find out that they need to make up their own conclusion????(and probably will).

I am happy with my present accn but have had nightmares in the past, both as a LIM and PAD. Maybe we do need to go down the line like other Armed Forces of longer postings and 'find your own place', subsidised at a reasonable rate. The system is burning more money on administration than on solving the problem, go figure. We have so many 'trained' artisans in the forces who aren't allowed to practice their trade or are misemployed yet still paid for the qual. Many want to carry out their trade, why not let them crack on? If it's because they haven't got the Governmentaly Recognised qualifications - why have them in the forces? Plumbers, Sparkies, Chippies etc, they could probably sort out a row of semi detatched houses in half the time it takes the local contractors or MOD Recognised, over priced, lazy, underskilled planks that we all know and love.