Thread: Audit of Blair's Promise

A few weeks ago TB promised British Forces in AFG whatever they wanted to help win the war against the Taliban.

I imagine that battlefied helicopters were asked for almost immediately. I have a suspicion that CR2 and Warrior were also asked for.

This promise appears to have dropped out of the news for the time being, so I thought it would be interesting to know (within reason):

- What theatre has asked for.

- When they asked for it.

- When it arrived in theatre.

- Does it meet the requirement?

- If it didn't arrive, what reasons did MOD give?

By keeping a track of these types of questions, it should be possible to identify whether Blair's promise to provide unconditional support to the troops in AFG was an empty one.

Here's a starter for 10. Any sign of new/more helicopters yet?

If Blair really wants to give the forces what they want, how about his resignation followed by an immediate election??

Originally Posted by Thought_Criminal

If Blair really wants to give the forces what they want, how about his resignation followed by an immediate election??

I nice thought. But during an election the Civil Service enters a kind of hibernation period until the new Government is elected. I believe that during this period no contracts can be signed. That won't help anybody in AFG.

He did make the promise though, I saw him do it on the telly.

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

Here's a starter for 10. Any sign of new/more helicopters yet?

Well I have heard the Govt's line is that none have been requested - some MoD Apparatchiks evidently got the hint and are mislaying any requests that come accross their desks.

Originally Posted by armchair_jihad

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

Here's a starter for 10. Any sign of new/more helicopters yet?

Well I have heard the Govt's line is that none have been requested - some MoD Apparatchiks evidently got the hint and are mislaying any requests that come accross their desks.

I find that almost impossible to believe. Unless the message has done to theatre "don't ask for what you know you won't get".

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

I find that almost impossible to believe.

Bliar only said 'we will give them whatever they ask for - if they want helicopters they shall have Helicopters' he never said he had bought any.

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

Unless the message has done to theatre "don't ask for what you know you won't get".

You have answered your own question.

The media however has gone quiet on this issue - another brilliant piece of media handling by Number 10. They have done this so often for so long, do you really think some Defence journos and a few web site rants are a match for their dark skills?

Originally Posted by armchair_jihad

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

I find that almost impossible to believe.

Bliar only said 'we will give them whatever they ask for - if they want helicopters they shall have Helicopters' he never said he had bought any.

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

Unless the message has done to theatre "don't ask for what you know you won't get".

You have answered your own question.

The media however has gone quiet on this issue - another brilliant piece of media handling by Number 10. They have done this so often for so long, do you really think some Defence journos and a few web site rants are a match for their dark skills?

Sadly, no. Oh well, pension point still a while yet.

One thing you can say about Blair is that he's canny when he makes empty promises like this. The Warrior production line closed years ago and the factory where they were made now turns out aircraft wings. The Vickers factory in Newcastle probably added its CR2 workforce to the dole queue some time ago as well. And if anyone knows of a helicopter superstore which does discount deals on DAS-equipped SH, could they let Min DP know?

Originally Posted by Big_Duke_Six

The Warrior production line closed years ago

Which is depressing given at just how combat proven and wel thought of it is now it could really be a major export success.

Any one know who owns the blueprints and IP?

As has been widely reported Lord Drayson told parliament last month that the government is considering using 3S or other PMC's for helicopter transport missions in Afghanistan. Job done!

Ah, there is the small matter of writing (fat) cheques. Plus the ritual lengthy (and ultimately futile) procurement/contractual "best value" procedures because he was only "considering". Must not rush into these things or money might be wasted. Ah.

http://www.sss3.co.uk/helicopter_capability/

Now the heavier lift heli's: those would be Russian, if not mistaken. And one seems to recall that very similar ones have been at work in Afghanistan before......

Ah well at least they work

I've heard that we have taken the offer from the Danes to buy back their 6 Merlins and we have also bought a similar number destined for another customer, (Canada I believe).

There is another SH squadron being formed at Benson to operate the new cabs and rumour has it that aircrew will be a mix of RAF/RN with Seakings being operated until the new kit arrives. Should be interesting to see where they are going to squeeze that lot in as space is already tight.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy_Wuzzy

I've heard that we have taken the offer from the Danes to buy back their 6 Merlins and we have also bought a similar number destined for another customer, (Canada I believe).

There is another SH squadron being formed at Benson to operate the new cabs and rumour has it that aircrew will be a mix of RAF/RN with Seakings being operated until the new kit arrives. Should be interesting to see where they are going to squeeze that lot in as space is already tight.

I was talking to a Merlin pilot the other week - based at Benson, where aircrew are doing tours of 2 months on, 2 months off at present - and it appears that the Danish ones are very basic and lack some of the avionics and, critically, the DAS that we require. Apparently, while the airframes could be delivered reasonably quickly, upgrading them would be almost as slow as waiting for our next tranche anyway. He didn't elaborate more, but it certainly seemed like a bigger deal than just sticking some dymo tape over the Danish instrument labels.

Originally Posted by Big_Duke_Six

I was talking to a Merlin pilot the other week - based at Benson, where aircrew are doing tours of 2 months on, 2 months off at present - and it appears that the Danish ones are very basic and lack some of the avionics and, critically, the DAS that we require. Apparently, while the airframes could be delivered reasonably quickly, upgrading them would be almost as slow as waiting for our next tranche anyway. He didn't elaborate more, but it certainly seemed like a bigger deal than just sticking some dymo tape over the Danish instrument labels.

Well then looks like Gordon will save a few quid then