ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by jagman

I think you are missing the point, Belfast City Council have been deliberatley provocative.
They knew what would happen but did it anyway. That makes them just as bad as the tossers out rioting but they are supposed to be better than that.

Arrant nonsense.

So, to take another example, by your argument the Conservative Government of the early 90s should have backed away from introducing the Poll Tax as they should have known there would be a backlash against this deeply unpopular policy from those who now had to pay for their services. They may not have seen the riots coming but they had to expect a reaction.

Should they not have implemented it despite having a democratic mandate?

Can't have it both ways. The UK is either a democracy or it is not.

I don't have any particular liking for rioters but I do understand why they are so sensetive about what they see as an deliberate assault on their nationality.
To put it in context, Ulster has had decades of terrorism and brutality over its status as part of the UK and now they see their own city council trying to chip away at that nationality. In their eyes its a step to far.

Sensible people would try and vote in more councillors opposed to the removal of the flag then. Not shoot themselves in the foot politically and morally.

The City Council chose to provoke them in the full knowledge there would be this sort of reaction.

Just because the Council is hiding behind the cloak of legitimacy doesn't make them any less stupid than the rioters.

Comparing a democratic assembly with rioters who are taking shots at the police? Jesus.

Originally Posted by mac_uk

As shitty as it is, I do believe that the Republicans have a political majority over there.

Apologies for the snip. However, this is not the case. What IS the case is:

(a) Unionists, in large numbers, don't bother voting. The Republicans/Nats alays get the vote out.
(b) Too many wee Mickey Mouse parties like the PUP/UDP and some other Tin Pot wee cunt was on the news last night. The Prods who do bother voting in the fiefdoms controlled by these types, who are, let's face it, paramilitaries, are taking votes away from DUP/UUP, and allowing Nats/Reps across the line, sometimes by a few hundred or even a few dozen votes.

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

Buckingham Palace managed to do without a Union Jack until fairly recently, why does a town hall need one? Do you ever forget what country you're in and need to check the roof of a nearby public building to remind you?

All Royal residences fly 'The Royal Standard', when a monarch is in residence. After change in Royal protocol in 1997 the Union Jack is now flown at Buck Pal when Lizzy 2 strokes is not in residence, and it is a Royal Residence not a govt building. As for NI, PERHAPS it should be flown permanently from all Govt buildings, if just to remind all HM citizens of NI that they are still part of the UK, until otherwise decided.

Originally Posted by SauceDoctor

Apologies for the snip. However, this is not the case. What IS the case is:

(a) Unionists, in large numbers, don't bother voting. The Republicans/Nats alays get the vote out.
(b) Too many wee Mickey Mouse parties like the PUP/UDP and some other Tin Pot wee cunt was on the news last night. The Prods who do bother voting in the fiefdoms controlled by these types, who are, let's face it, paramilitaries, are taking votes away from DUP/UUP, and allowing Nats/Reps across the line, sometimes by a few hundred or even a few dozen votes.

The joys of a democracy.
So the Unionists don't bother going out to vote and then kick off when the politicians who have been elected by the people who could be bothered to vote make a decision that they don't like?
Is anyone really surprised that Republican politicians would want to get rid of as much of the UK as they can?

If you don't want that happening then go out and vote for politicians who'll represent you and your interests.
Throwing a tantrum isn't the way to do it.
It doesn't really show loyalty to the UK trying to smash bits of it up and setting fire to it.

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And remember the shinners voting motto "vote early, vote often and we will resurrect you if you are dead"

You may say its just abother town hall. But look at it this way. It along with stormont is seat of government power in the capital city of a country in the united kingdom. Correct me if im wrong but holyrood (the seat of power in the capital city of a country in the united kingdom) and the houses of parliament in London (also the seat of power in the capital city of a country in the united kingdom) both fly the union flag every day of the year. Considering everything is meant to be equal, why even bother and take it to a vote in Belfast?

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Originally Posted by Sixty

Arrant nonsense.

If you say so. After generations of political violence in Ulster I would have thought the answer was to encourage the various nutters/communities to rub along together rather than set out to upset one segment of society for giggles

So, to take another example, by your argument the Conservative Government of the early 90s should have backed away from introducing the Poll Tax as they should have known there would be a backlash against this deeply unpopular policy from those who now had to pay for their services. They may not have seen the riots coming but they had to expect a reaction.

Thats the point though isn't it? Removing the flag was always going to cause a violent reaction. Belfast City Council evidently decided that it was an acceptable (or perhaps desirable) price

Should they not have implemented it despite having a democratic mandate?

Can't have it both ways. The UK is either a democracy or it is not.

I would have expected Belfast City Council to have excersised a bit of common sense, instead the chose to take a decision to be deliberatley confrontational with entirely predictable results



Sensible people would try and vote in more councillors opposed to the removal of the flag then. Not shoot themselves in the foot politically and morally.

Nobody ever accused the loyalists of being sensible


Comparing a democratic assembly with rioters who are taking shots at the police? Jesus.

When it comes to stupid decisions, yes

My bold.

Belfast City Council has wilfully set out to antagonise the Loyalists. That isn't sensible it isn't reasonable and it isn't what the inhabitants of Belfast should have to put up with.
Surely the councils task should be to encourage the idiots on both sides to set aside sectarian differences rather than provoke rioting.
I fully agree that the loyalist rioters have just shown themselves to be the same old muppets that they have been for decades but that does not excuse the council for setting out to create the confrontation.

Unlike the poll tax riots this situation was created on purpose.

Couldnt agree more. The majority vote clearly knew that that the loyalist "other side" would react this way and too be frank it wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if it was what they were hoping for. So they could step back on the moral high ground and say. "Look at us unionists, doing things peacefully and politically while the loyalist animals are out there rioting" in my opinion the loyalists have played right into there hands.

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