ARmy Rumour SErvice

**sunnoficarus** · 25-06-2012, 20:48

Originally Posted by Tremaine

So, bleedin' obvious point #1: It boils down to productivity. Immigration is and has always been a national cross party agenda, to boost economic growth.That should please the liberals and the number crunchers munching on their Muesli.

Bleedin' obvious point #2: if the UK electorate wants to see drastic cuts in immigration, they should go to work, and contribute to the UK economic growth, before immigrants do it for them.

3: The UK Economy is now immigrant dependent, because the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, and Office for Budget Responsibility, says we can't afford to lose productive migrant workers or lose the momentum.

Implications for social stability, housing, and security, through liberal posturing are significant by their absence from the agenda.

Britain currently by most measures has around 9m non employed natives.
One thing Britain isn't short of is unskilled labour, what it is short of is unskilled labour who will get off their arses and get a job.

**Cold_Collation** · 25-06-2012, 21:01

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

Britain currently by most measures has around 9m non employed natives.
One thing Britain isn't short of is unskilled labour, what it is short of is unskilled labour who will get off their arses and get a job.

...I'm reminded of a newspaper story on a Eastern European couple who moved to Wales (Port Talbot?), both got jobs and bought a house locally - while the locals, erm, didn't.

**Pyianno** · 25-06-2012, 21:15

Originally Posted by smartascarrots

Me neither. The trouble is, our new and 'improved' immigration system is designed to keep the overall numbers down rather than to separate the two.

It has come up with a crude metric for exclusion - level of prospective earnings in employment (taken in conjunction with other things).

The EU is the real problem.

**smartascarrots** · 25-06-2012, 21:48

Originally Posted by Pyianno

It has come up with a crude metric for exclusion - level of prospective earnings in employment (taken in conjunction with other things).

The EU is the real problem.

It's taken to lumping temporary migration in with permanent and used cutbacks in the issuance of temporary visas to mask doing sod-all about permanent overstayers.

Politicians are the real problem.

**Pyianno** · 25-06-2012, 21:55

Originally Posted by smartascarrots

Politicians are the real problem.

Can't argue with that. But let us not forget the corporate donors behind them, shaping policy.

**House Sparrow** · 25-06-2012, 22:03

Ah, smartascarrots my dear chappie, where do these best and brightest from over seas get their "best and brightest-er-ness" from? by most accounts our education system is absolutely rubbish, we seriously need to improve our education system and instill a sense of purpose and capability. more importantly I believe, to discipline our rampant yoof.
We wouldn't need to import so many foriegners otherwise.
(another point however; is it fair on third world countries if we're draining them of their brains?)

Now down to pyianno's point of choosing between the "best and brightest" versus "any run of the old mill labourer".. I'd wager it, that choosing either does not matter, the problem with immigrants today is that they are not integrating, and fracturing the country, I don't know when we started celebrating the foriegners that live amongst us, we used to celebrate what made us English.

Your local plebian would rather have a non-controversial neighbour, one that would be a neighbour, one who'll actually say hey, you chappies; quite nice of you letting me in, I'll have what you're having.". rather than than one who can't speakie engrish or rastafarian drugies, who'll keep amongst their kinfolk and themselves. oh just like ours.
most of our immigrants are controversial, but it's racist to say so.
those that aren't a cause of controversy aren't really immigrants for long.

anyway go go schism.

**smartascarrots** · 25-06-2012, 22:40

Originally Posted by House Sparrow

Ah, smartascarrots my dear chappie, where do these best and brightest from over seas get their "best and brightest-er-ness" from?

The bell-shaped distribution curve. Some people will be brighter than others naturally. Education helps develop that innate talent but the talent itself is distributed fairly evenly around the globe.

Originally Posted by House Sparrow

We wouldn't need to import so many foriegners otherwise.

We’re an extremely small nation and the flukes that allowed us to make use of other nation’s resources in order to dominate the globe no longer apply. We have to find the human component of those resources in some other way and the numbers are against us. By all means make the best of those we produce internally but we still need to entice some of those from abroad to cleave unto us to make up the shortfall.

Originally Posted by House Sparrow

(another point however; is it fair on third world countries if we're draining them of their brains?)

Training, not necessarily draining. Those who return to their home nation with new skills and experience contribute to their society’s development beyond what they could have done without it. Immigration isn’t necessarily permanent.

Not every immigrant comes from the developing world, either.

Originally Posted by House Sparrow

most of our immigrants are controversial, but it's racist to say so.

Tourists and students are controversial? In what way. They’re immigrants too, covered by immigration law and policed by the immigration authorities.

I think your post brings up an under-examined reason why it's so difficult to have a reasoned debate on immigration - it's a phenomenon poorly-understood by the general public, who see it in stereotypes.

**jonwilly** · 25-06-2012, 22:48

Immigration, thinks sum folks have never lived in other folks Land.

john

**CaptainPlume** · 26-06-2012, 09:12

Originally Posted by jonwilly

Immigration, thinks sum folks have never lived in other folks Land.

john

I would call BAOR Occupation rather than immigration

On all other occasions I've worked abroad it has been at the invitation of a host nation Goverment or organisation.

**CaptainPlume** · 26-06-2012, 09:21

OK, smaratascarrots I didn't explain myself well. Of course students going to legitimate places of education are not just a money-spinner they add something to the variety of life from the German blokes who used to come & do a year or so at my School to a whole bunch of Singaporean, Thai, US and mates from all over the shop I made at University.

Similarly my family helps out a Hong Kong Chinese group in our area who graft like you wouldn't believe. As my Father is of the "suitable person" group he countersigns a lot of their official paperwork & we especially assisted them around about 1997 when all the handover stuff was going on.

I still to a point hold my opinion re SANZA types. MrsPlume is a Kiwi & allowed to work here as she holds an Irish passport acquired by overseas birth registration as her grandfather was from Coleraine*. I find it ironic that she has many relations who fought for us in WWII yet they can only come over here for short periods. Sorry, but I think we have more in common with that lot than with a lot of Europe & especially Romanians & Balkan sorts.

*It certainly raises eyebrows amongst some of our Irish born mates at the Rugby, especially when she uses Irish expressions but with a broad NZ twang.