ARmy Rumour SErvice

**ugly** · 20-06-2012, 07:34

If its a 120mm smoothbore thats wanted why dont we try and smooth a couple out?

**sunnoficarus** · 20-06-2012, 07:42

Originally Posted by jagman

MOD spending isn't akward, its outright madness.

I'd be interested to see the figures
I fully accept that it is possible that re-gunning CR2 could be as expensive as buying Leo2 (especially as the MOD can't make a deal with anyone without pissing away millions) but how many Leo's do you get per CR2 conversion?

Given the billion pound FRES fiasco its no surprise that there isn't any money.

The mooted upgrade for CR2 included a new German 120mm smoothbore gun, a new turret, all new FCS, new German engine and transmission and new tracks and associated gubbins.
Basically, the only significant bits carried over and the only 'British' content was the bare hull and the BV. So basically, your upgraded 'British' tank would actually have enough German content to quailfy for a 'Made in Germany' sticker. And being as how we now have no tank factory, all that rebuild work would probably have to be farmed out to Krauss-Maffei in Germany too.

**fozzy** · 20-06-2012, 13:11

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

The mooted upgrade for CR2 included a new German 120mm smoothbore gun, a new turret, all new FCS, new German engine and transmission and new tracks and associated gubbins.
Basically, the only significant bits carried over and the only 'British' content was the bare hull and the BV. So basically, your upgraded 'British' tank would actually have enough German content to quailfy for a 'Made in Germany' sticker. And being as how we now have no tank factory, all that rebuild work would probably have to be farmed out to Krauss-Maffei in Germany too.

Then if that what it takes, we should do it. With the amount of LEO2's being ordered we should get a good deal via economies of scale.

Did the Dutch ditch their panzers? I recall that they were potentially interested in buying/leasing our "surplus" CR2s. Why not do a JV with the Dutch -joint upgrade the fleet and split the costs in proportion?

**sunnoficarus** · 20-06-2012, 13:18

Originally Posted by fozzy

Then if that what it takes, we should do it. With the amount of LEO2's being ordered we should get a good deal via economies of scale.

Did the Dutch ditch their panzers? I recall that they were potentially interested in buying/leasing our "surplus" CR2s. Why not do a JV with the Dutch -joint upgrade the fleet and split the costs in proportion?

Cloggies have given up with tanks. Just sold the lot, LEO 2's, to the Canadians, Portuguese and Indonesians.

**fozzy** · 20-06-2012, 13:22

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

Cloggies have given up with tanks. Just sold the lot, LEO 2's, to the Canadians, Portuguese and Indonesians.

Shit! We could have got in at the Fire Sale then!

**sunnoficarus** · 20-06-2012, 13:30

Originally Posted by fozzy

Shit! We could have got in at the Fire Sale then!

Yup, the last 100, current model LEO2A6's, just went to the Indonesians for £180M

**ugly** · 20-06-2012, 14:52

"End of an era in Tyneside - Vickers factory closes."
theres a factory in Geordie Land making Vicars? Wow, where are priests made then? My mam said they all go to theologicall college!

**jagman** · 20-06-2012, 15:00

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

Edited for brevity

The Yanks, Germans and Isrealis all designed new MBT's around the same time as us, however, they all had the eminently good sense to design them so they could be easily fitted with the Rheinmettal smoothbore cannon.

Which brings us round in a nice neat circle to the point that Vicker's didn't spec what gun went into CR2, the MOD did.
And other point that remains the same, nobosy is going to fund the purchase of a fleet of Leo2's anytime soon.

L30 still holds the record for longest range tank to tank kill does it not? At what point has the L30 failed to deliver what has been asked of it?

If we want heavy armour, then its what we've already got.

**sunnoficarus** · 20-06-2012, 16:19

Originally Posted by jagman

Which brings us round in a nice neat circle to the point that Vicker's didn't spec what gun went into CR2, the MOD did..

And the other lots MOD's also specified the 105mm L7, but the clever design johhnies put a bit of think into it and made them so you could put a new big butch gat in them easily.

Originally Posted by jagman

L30 still holds the record for longest range tank to tank kill does it not?

It was against a stationary tank and your point it? IDF Centurions shot up some dug in Syrian tanks at about 10km in the 60's using indirect fire. Doesn't mean we should regun with the L7.

The future, and we're not allowed to play…

http://www.iai.co.il/31015-37347-en/...ons.aspx?btl=1

Originally Posted by jagman

At what point has the L30 failed to deliver what has been asked of it?

About a decade ago, but you seem very comfortable with UK tanks being increasingly outgunned for the next few decades so no worries I suppose.

**ugly** · 20-06-2012, 17:09

Excuse me but how is our tank not fitted with or for http://www.iai.co.il/31015-37347-en/...ons.aspx?btl=1 any different from any other tank of any iother nation in the same boat. can these be fired from a smoothbore and do they work, If they cant be fired from the rifled gun then perhaps we should wait until they have been perfected. Can we add them on the roof of the turret/ Do we really need them and can we upgrade Warrior to do that? Warrior can keep up with CR2 so perhaps we need a better mix of vehicles to move forward rather than scrap existing. Will those missiles fit in existing CR2 without removing all conventional ammo?