ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Legs

I'm of the opinion that the time of the Ghurkas in the British Army is coming to a close.

Think about it. They are no longer as economically viable as they were. Their wages, pensions and immigration status has seen to that. Are they any better as soldiers that the Paras, Rifles, Yorks etc? I doubt it.

If we must cut infantry numbers I think we should be more protectionist of our British Regiments, and lose the anachronism of a foreign regiment fighting for us.

Except, of course, that the Yorks manning shortfall is made up by a Coy of Ghurkas.

If ability to recruit and retain is a metric then the RGR are in an unassailable position.

Originally Posted by BedIn

Well, to be fair we have Yorkshire Regiments, Lancashire Regiments, Scottish Regiments and Irish Regiments. Why not have a Nepalese one?

Nepali is more understandable?

Originally Posted by BedIn

Well, to be fair we have Yorkshire Regiments, Lancashire Regiments, Scottish Regiments and Irish Regiments. Why not have a Nepalese one?

They are also fully integrated and operate with an ethnic mix that New Labour would be proud of! Your ball!

Back on topic: Right call by the judge, applying the law appropriately. Hope the families accept it without going all HRA

Now back to "wither the gurkha Part 33" I'm pulling this info out of verbal briefings passim, so any errors are my grey cells

RGR
98 - until now 108 platoon - company size operational deployments with other units/standalone
98 - until now 13 BG operational deployments

Within the next few weeks the last of three Gurkha Reinforcement companies will be disbanded. These were set up in 1996 following the RGR departure from Hong Kong and the Amalgamation of 2 & 3 RGR, as a "short term" measure to bolster understrength Brit battalions.
Gurkha Signals, Engineers and logistics have also been increased in numbers & size over last decade

Recruitment is an interesting one. Recruiting group's annual budget has varied in between £25m-£36m - not sure what it is at the moment. This year this is producing 7000 recruits. If HQRG ratio still stands, this is a little less that 1/10th of people reached/marketed to. (ratio is 10 see/note the adverts, 3 then take it further, only 1 of the original 10 leaves phase 1 training)

Gurkha recruiting is a little different, piggy backed on to charitably funded welfare centres with very few permanent staff. Specific recruitment costs come in the form of adverts in the local papers saying when and where to pitch up. Before attestation, passing of physical/mental tests to a higher level is required.

Difficult to compare; Brit recruiting is focused on encouraging people to apply, gurkha recruiting on whittling numbers of keen applicants down (ratios have anecdotally varied from 300 to 30 applicants per vacancy)

New TACOS work out in MOD'd budgetry favour, more enforceable MCPs and later pensions. MOD has always liked later pensions, no matter brit, gurkha F&C etc. IIRC there was some cheerful story of a study in the 80s/90s that showed an increased mortality rate for those leaving the army than for their equivalent civvie segment - attributed to significant institutionalisation, fatty diet and bad habits (beer 'nt tabs)

Any costs post Lumley don't hit MOD budget, but welfare instead - so no saving on MOD budget.

Logically (manning) and economically there are good points to argue in favour of their retention. They are overmanned now (through op requirement/manning needs) and are being cut back to establishment.
If A2020 doesn't turn out to be the miracle cure it promises to be, then I suspect a well manned battalion with few recruitment or retention problems will find utility inn the next round of deckchair organisation

Have you ever done a course with a JG? Fuck me they used to pin us down to our desks to explain everything they had written down parrot fashion during the course. Then they would write a best book in Nepali and learn everything twice. Not disrespecting their willingness nor desire to get on but how many Nigerians would have to do that?
I have said that regimental lineages are so twisted as to invalidate them, perhaps we need to delete the regimental county links (only 2 named county regiments now) and just do a rifles with the Northern regts, and similar with the Anglians and PWRR!
Shove the Fusiliers in and you have what 3 none HD English Infantry Regiments, Rifles, Southern and Northern.
Add the getting smaller sweaties (or not if wee eck gets his way) and you possiibly have the 5 regiments (regional Brigade) scenario.
Fully integrated, fully transferable between regiments even. Job jobbed, manning sorted, home for tea and knighthood!

Originally Posted by syledis

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, is this the shape of things to come for Gurkha families?

Not likely, the migration of elderly Gurkhas to UK has been dependent driven.

Most folk believe that St Joanna got the better of Gordon Brown - actually he was threatened by a cabinet revolt led by Keith Vaz.

Vaz, as chairman of the select committee, preferred to disregard the independent evidence to the cmmtee that the elderly Gurkhas were 'under intense pressure from their relatives' but preferred to believe bollox such as the evidence that the Metropolitan Police would welcome these aging and monolingual Gurkhas into its ranks.

So yes, we are going to hear a lot more about the adult dependents issue. Last week the joint UBGEA/ Enough is Enough came to Aldershot to gather signatures for their pensions petition.

It was led by Gyanraj ( "The British treated us like slaves ") Rai of UBGEA "Human Rights Activist" and St Joanna II in waiting, Bobbie Wason of 'Enough is Enough',

But in addition to the pensions issue, they state other items on their agenda.

Apart from agitating for an annual Gurkha Memorial Day to be declared for 23th April (which is not relevant to this topic) they are demanding two further concessions. 1. The right of Gurkhas to bring in their adult dependents, and
2. The right to British Citizenship for Gurkhas who have been allowed Indefinate Leave to Enter or remain in UK (as per the Joanna campaign)

Bobbie Wason claims that British Citizenship is necessary for the pensions issue. Absolute rubbish of course- no pensions are dependent on British Citizenship. Most immigrants go through their entire lives without taken up citizenship and get all the state or employment benefits that they are entitled to.
Pretty well the only disadvantages of not having citizenship are
You can't officially vote or sit on jury service, nor can you gain ILR for others by marrying them.

Here's the clip from last week's foray into Aldershot Bobbie Wason is the Indian woman in western dress hugging the Nepalese woman.

The main placard reads;

Justice for Gurkkas only solution to the Rushmoor problem.
Pay us our dues, we would love to go back home.
We are here to stay until our dues are paid.
Gurkhas are here- Not by Choice.

BBC News - Gurkhas take pension campaign to Aldershot

So they are here until we give them right to settle? Fuck off thanks very much, have your pension and go home!
I felt very odd being the seemingly only one who thought that the gurkhas agitating for extending additional rights to former Gurkhas who had served under older TACOS was wrong/ I dont feel that way anymore, in fact I am amazed more folk havent lost patience with them!

Originally Posted by jonwilly

"This may not make them the best, but they're certainly not the worst."

Now I never said they where the worst or suggested that they where bad or poor infantrymen.
You like the suggestion that JG has a terrifying reputation because he wields a knife ?
How many good Brit battalions have we lost ?
JG is a mercenary and will fight for who pays him.
UK, India, Sultan of Oman and even Sultan of Brunei has his own besides having a Brit Gurkha Battalion to protect his oil/gas field.
I don't know how long you spent serving with them, perhaps you'd care to tell us and enlighten all with your practical knowledge, or perhaps your a young officer hoping to serve with them.

john
When cheap they where a Good Buy for an Empire of Old.
Now ?

Serving Line Infantry Officer of 17yrs service who has recently worked at the Infantry Battle School.

JG isn't a mercenary. He serves in Brunei because HMG tells him to. There are Nepalese in the Indian Army and the Singapore Police, but there are Brits in Blackwater.

JG has taken an oath of allegiance, like all other foreign nationals in HM Forces.