- 19-06-2012, 12:57 #151
Who here actually feels hard done by or discriminated against because white boys can't serve as Toms in RGR?
If you’re not a naturalized Tree Frog and have a deep desire to serve in RGR then get a commission and become an RGR officer. Failing that, if you’re slightly more adventurous, tape your eyes back, get a tan, lose a few inches in height and report to Nepal with a basket full of rocks on your back and get tabbing.
OTT PC bullshit does not belong in the Infantry, especially when it's being used to disband a good Regiment."The browning is jammed. I am saying 'driver advance' on the "A" set and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich.".......British Tankie, N. Africa, WW2.
“Gentlemen, in spite of your excellent training and orders, do not be daunted if chaos reigns. It undoubtedly will.”.......Brigadier Hill, 6th Airborne Div.
- 19-06-2012, 12:57 #152
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- Gods Waiting room
No one has discounted the efforts of JG in providing incremental companies, perhaps its time that they started to provide IRs as the rest of the Infantry has done since before my memory started. we would see how effective they are then. If they were then useful it could be a roll out. At the moment look at any op touring Bn and it will have an incremental company, a composite company and a shit load of IRs from other cap badges. Its always been the same. Its the beauty of the battle group. Can the JG provide IRs at short notice to a rifle company of say the R Anglians? I know my old regiment could, its that flexibility that ensures the British bns cope with the workload on a tour. The Bns need incremental companies because they have areas far to big to control with a standard Bn. Its always been the same. In 1983 my Bns TAOR was that of 3 Bns in 1978. to change that you need a bigger army or more frequent tours! something we wont be seeing much of in a hurry!
So apart from providing an incremental company thats all they can do for the inf? Not good enough nowadays!"I'd rather be a tired old Has been, than a tired old Never Has Been!!"
"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy."
Semper in excremento sum, solum profunditas mutat
According to Ispeakcrabandpongo "Typically Island Ape Brits," That suits me!
- 19-06-2012, 13:01 #153
Personally I don't care if we have regiments just for Nepalese, just for Muslims, just for Sikhs or just for anyone else. The only thing I'm bothered about for the Army is that the regiments we have are fully manned, fully trained and fully capable. I couldn't care less what colour they are, what festivals they believe in or anything else. Going on those criteria there's more than one 'British' battalion that should be on the block before the Gurkhas.
If it comes down to losing one or both Gurkha battalions then so be it, so long as the reason we're losing them is because they're now the worst two battalions left in the Army and not to protect a random 'British' battalion that's undermanned and no better as soldiers.
- 19-06-2012, 13:02 #154
- Join Date
- Nov 2003
Honky, I think you're forgetting the training the wee men receive in Nepal before they arrive in the UK (though how long the Nepali Politburo allow that to continue is anyone's guess).
Now back on thread regarding re-patriating the adult children of former Gurkhas - they should go home, though they'll probably be allowed to stay and become a burden on the taxpayer like a couple of thousand more who shuffled into Aldershot courtesy of that woman Lumley. Perhaps we should factor that into the cost of maintaining Gurkha units too!Hey surr, thae bastards urr firin ball!
- 19-06-2012, 13:35 #155
To eat well in England one must have breakfast three times a day
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- The Isle of Innisfree
London: its "buzz" and "vibrancy"... can be codewords for drugs, late-night noise and multi-culturalism run (literally) riot.
- 19-06-2012, 14:10 #156
You have missed out the 6 months or so they have in Nepal before they even get on the plane to Catterick. As for failing Audits, Fit For Role inspections, if it was not for the extra Cadre of "White Faces" that they require to ensure they actually function they would have fallen apart long ago. I do not see my unit relying on outside specialists posted in to pass the minimum standards.
About the costs, I can only speak for the Infra side and they are far, far above that what is required for a normal Bn. As before, 3 x as many MQ’s, larger families, more schooling, healthcare for the soldier and families, LOA etc, leaves to be taken in UK or Nepal etc. The Sultan ponies up a bit, but it is not the full cost and besides which apart from keeping Ram Dhani’s in business and a bit of support to TTB, what do they provide to the tour plot. Oh yes, a tour mentoring Plod and PB overwatch, if they are as good as they say they are, why were they not at the very sharp end??
Add to that as we have all seen the “Gurkha Pass” on various courses. If someone ever puts a virus on that Hard Drive held somewhere in the Bde that holds all past and present Army exam papers, you watch the Borg go into meltdown.
A lot of things can be swept out of sight under various carpets by a determined enough unit. Having heard all of the myths about them being more reliable, dedicated and fitter than any British Tom I was treated to the pleasure of a PFT with the Bn. This time they decided to start the oldies off first, then through the age groups at the relevant time intervals until the young 'uns had to start. The finish point was the camp gate and it was to be closed at the cut off time. Watching a shed load of fat useless Burpa's from a unit that a month or so previously had logged a 100% pass rate trying to scale the perimeter fence, whinging, pleading and bubbling to the Guard still brings a smile to my face. That was one of quite a few instances where the various bubbles about their quality that I held were burst.
The QGO's who if you could actually collar them in their offices when they were not on the Golf Course, would have far less of a clue than the potted plants residing in their offices as to what was going on. It was a sad state of affairs that the best soldier in a particular little support unit was a LCpl who would never get promoted because he had the wrong surname even though he kept it afloat and his QGO out of nick.
Me, I'm just a Sapper, no weird and wonderful coloured beret adorns my head and I’m certainly not a super soldier, but I've spent more than enough time in various shitholes around the world working for and with all sorts of weird, wonderful, historic, grand, plain old vanilla units and even led foreign troops to have a fair idea of what is right and wrong with an organisation. I'm well aware of the limitations that my own Corps and what our QGE have. The one thing they are not limited by is quantities of manpower just like the rest of the Bde of Gurkhas, but what they are limited by is the overall quality of that manpower. I'm aware that as Stalin said, quantity has a quality all of its own, but not in these parsimonious times where every bloke counts and had better be able to do his job. How many of us now are double and triple hatted in our daily duties?
We cannot support dead weights; history, ethos and standards are not worth anything unless they are upheld. Oh, and if I ever meet St Jo of the Lumleys, she will be getting a size 13 in the Clacker. Apologies for the formatting, feckin work PC!
Last edited by Sapper145; 19-06-2012 at 16:59.Its hard to type when you have fingers like pigs tits!
- 19-06-2012, 15:02 #157
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
Go back a couple of pages Gurkha children lose test case
The info on numbers of deployments as partial or formed units comes from a recent brief BoG gave to MOD - presumably you will allege they are lying or twisting figures to suit. Not exactly individual IRs, ugly, but they have been pulling their weight.
The info on recruiting figures and ratios come from time spent working at HQRG and from a specific query about comparative costs of UK vs Gurkha recruiting I was asked to respond to.
As opposed to apologising about the formatting, why not do some research and dig up some data instead of recycling what sounds like personal gripes as fact?The major didn't think of his superiors as fools, of course, since it would follow that everyone who obeyed them was a fool. He used the term 'unwise', and felt worried when he used it.
- 19-06-2012, 15:14 #158
- 19-06-2012, 15:23 #159
Smallbrownprivates,Where did I say they were lying or twisting figures? Nor did I alledge they were tour dodging, just asking why if they were that good, why where they only entrusted with a task, not what I would have expected a unit of that vaunted calibre to be given?
Likewise, I was also not questioning the recruiting costs, rather the training and life support burden vis a vis a normal vanilla inf Bn. Or maybe its not personal gripes but rather the view of an outsider looking in and not that of someone who is part of the Bde with a vested intrest.
Last edited by Sapper145; 19-06-2012 at 16:57.Its hard to type when you have fingers like pigs tits!
- 19-06-2012, 17:32 #160
I suspect it isn't as clear cut as "they take longer to train and they need more MQs". On average they go for the full 22 whether they promote beyond private or not. Therefore you train once and fill a PID for life. How many UK soldiers to fill the same PID for 22 years?
Recruiting costs are minimal compared to a UK soldier. We're broadly speaking selecting out, not luring in.
There must somewhere be the whole life cost of a Gurkha in comparison to a UK soldier. I'd be interested to see. Until then I remain open.
However, I come back to the point that they man their Bns well. Others don't.The sand of the desert is sodden red-
Red with the wreck of the square that broke
The gatling's jammed and the colonel dead,
And the regiment blind with dust and smoke.
The river of death has brimmed its banks,
And England's far, and Honour a name,
But the voice of a schoolboy rallies the ranks-
"Play up! Play up! And play the game!"