ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by BugzDaMick

It always comes down to the same old tactic, doesn't it? Bugsy must be brainwashed and a total nutter because he's a Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyist/Maoist arse licker
. All that happens is that you try to discredit and ridicule what I post. That's not what I call mature and sensible discussion. Youse fervently defend a system that's verifiably destructive, yet when I espouse COMMUNISM with a similar conviction - I'm a fool and a fantasist. And youse call me brainwashed?

MsG

That's more like it,,,,,,

MsG

Originally Posted by BugzDaMick

It always comes down to the same old tactic, doesn't it? Bugsy must be brainwashed and a total nutter because he's a Socialist. He's lost touch with reality. So what does a comparison of the "realities" look like?

In the period from 1949 to 1989, i.e. from the foundation of West Germany and the GDR, how many folks in West Germany lost their jobs and/or houses? How many had no choice but to declare themselves bankrupt? How many families were living below the poverty line at any one time. How high and low was unemployment? How many folks have no other choice but to live their lives in continual indebtedness?

Look up the figures in, say, ten-year intervals and then apply the same questions and intervals to the GDR. You'll be very surprised.

So there we have an economic system that has, on a regular basis, repeatedly failed the vast majority of the population in West Germany (and in other countries), that has forced penury on the masses again and again, yet youse still believe in it and can't imagine any alternative. I've yet to hear anyone espouse the positive aspects of Capitalism as an ongoing economic system in the context of a steady improvement. All that happens is that you try to discredit and ridicule what I post. That's not what I call mature and sensible discussion. Youse fervently defend a system that's verifiably destructive, yet when I espouse Socialim with a similar conviction - I'm a fool and a fantasist. And youse call me brainwashed?

MsG

What I know for a fact mucker....is that when a capitalist based system gets into trouble there is enough flexibility and individual autonomy inherent in that system to work your way out of trouble. when a socialist system gets found out it is well fucked and usually requires some sort of life suppo from the Imperialist running dogs to feed its inmates ( oops..citizens). A bloody good example is Zimbabwe, who the fuck is feeding them poor sods....comrade Mugabe and his fraternal socialist brothers or the capitalist west...and that country used to export food for fucks sake.

Originally Posted by BugzDaMick

It always comes down to the same old tactic, doesn't it? Bugsy must be brainwashed and a total nutter...

At last we're in total agreement.

Wordsmith

True Socialism is a seductive image. However, as we have seen, human nature is such that it will never work. Someone will always try to gain advantage either by shirking or by trying to get more than their share.

Similarly we see (just one example being Bob Crow) how those who get themselves into leadership positions will automatically expect more to reflect their prestige & importance. Zil lanes, Black Sea Dachas & access to the Beryozka were not, whatever you might think, Western propaganda!

Socialism = Communism and is the Opium of the Brain Dead...

Originally Posted by BugzDaMick

It always comes down to the same old tactic, doesn't it? Bugsy must be brainwashed and a total nutter because he's a Socialist. He's lost touch with reality. So what does a comparison of the "realities" look like?

So there we have an economic system that has, on a regular basis, repeatedly failed the vast majority of the population in West Germany (and in other countries), that has forced penury on the masses again and again, yet youse still believe in it and can't imagine any alternative. I've yet to hear anyone espouse the positive aspects of Capitalism as an ongoing economic system in the context of a steady improvement. All that happens is that you try to discredit and ridicule what I post. That's not what I call mature and sensible discussion. Youse fervently defend a system that's verifiably destructive, yet when I espouse Socialim with a similar conviction - I'm a fool and a fantasist. And youse call me brainwashed?

MsG

It may well be that capitalism has failed many of its participating economies and the people more than once.

But one simple and point that all good socialists fail to recognise is that in every instance, the people failed socialism. And for very good reason to.

Socialists like to cry that capitalism is full of selfish greed and unfair competition. At the same time managing to miss that that is precisely what socialism is in the real world. True, theoretical socialism has none of those vices. But as soon as you add the human interaction, hey presto!

Capitalism is a system of competition to better yourself with extra effort to obtain greater riches. The elite get mega rich and the majority obtain some form of betterment. Some get left behind through no fault of their own. Some get left behind because they are workshy slackers.

Socialism is a system of competition as to who can get away with the least effort for the same return. The elite get mega rich and a few hangers on do very well. The majority are cast adrift whilst they struggle to survive doing as little as possible.

Just about evry sane economist and political leader has recognised that you need a broadly capitalist economy to generate the wealth to subsidise the socialist dross and those less fortunate.

Bugsy, like others I welcome you back, though I wonder why you felt the need to change your title while making no apparent effort to conceal your 'true' identity (perhaps I missed some development). I give you full credit for your sterling defence of Socialism, however futile - if not bordering on the insane - that may be in the eyes of me and most others here, and for the fact that you've served in the Colours. I disagree with virtually everything you say in terms of politics or ideology, and I doubt we'd get along face to face, but at least I derive some pleasure in reading well-constructed posts in near-faultless English (increasingly uncommon on ARRSE) from an obviously intelligent man, if a strikingly misguided one. Finally, with apologies to the OP for the off-thread irrelevance, may we know what your "deadly boring" file contained?

Originally Posted by BugzDaMick

So there we have an economic system that has, on a regular basis, repeatedly failed the vast majority of the population in West Germany (and in other countries), that has forced penury on the masses again and again, yet youse still believe in it and can't imagine any alternative. I've yet to hear anyone espouse the positive aspects of Capitalism as an ongoing economic system in the context of a steady improvement. All that happens is that you try to discredit and ridicule what I post. That's not what I call mature and sensible discussion. Youse fervently defend a system that's verifiably destructive, yet when I espouse Socialim with a similar conviction - I'm a fool and a fantasist. And youse call me brainwashed?

MsG

Penury? Penury? Go to Zimbabwe or North Korea, then you'll see penury. I don't think too many people in West Germany were eating grass...

EDITED TO ADD:

And no, you won't here people complaining in those countries, because complaining gets you thrown into prison, or killed.