ARmy Rumour SErvice

Two issues hiding here-
1) Shit food- That's a cost driven decision, but ignoring anything that a competent dietician would advise. It's a false saving. People don't eat properly, (or in the case of geriatric nursing, are not seen to eat at all)so they stay ill, and clog up the beds.
In this case, there's a clinical need for a certain dietary product. Great-happy so far. I'm not sure that pizza is what a dietician would recommend but...
Issue 2)-The BIGGIE. Procurement. Everyone knows that if you buy in bulk, cost go down. What they don't seem to get is if you specify in the contract exactly what you want, it is then up to the supplier to figure out a way to meet that need. Put bluntly, if the suppliers want to suck at the public money tit, it's should be up to them to show they can deliver, not the purchaser bending over and saying "Shaft me here please".
This is a extreme case. Small quantities required, and what looks like a very badly priced contract. Add the two, and you have this fiasco.

Originally Posted by Auld-Yin

Why are the NHS buying food on prescription? If it is in hospital then don't they have cooks who can knock up a pizza base for pennies? If in the community, ie at home, why are the N H S paying for food?

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My question exactly. I would also want to know why they are ordering pizzas? Surely thats not the healthiest food for people?

Why is it government organisations pay well over the top for things? If they paid normal prices or bulk order prices, the country wouldn't be in as bad a state.

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

A lot of us are working very hard on exactly that, Wordsmith. I know it's only one example but a Divisional Manager I'm supporting at my current Trust is a complete rottweiler when it comes to making staff justify spend! Even working on little things like not putting normal waste in the contaminated waste bins can make a huge difference because of the relative cost of disposal.

I think you have the classic problem many large public organisations have - too few rottweilers and too many managers who are only interested in the glamour projects. In my time I've met an awful lot of managers who want to buy the nice new shiny £250K bit of kit and very few who think its a good idea to chop £250K out of the costs in the first place.

Here you have the fundamental problem with large organisations like the NHS. If it were a private sector company, it would have decent cost controls in place and wouldn't be buying £17 pizza bases (or feeding unhealthy crap like pizzas to patients in the first place).

If you outsource operations to private sector companies in order to try and make services more efficient, then they just gouge the NHS for as much money as they can. And the highly paid NHS senior management seem unwilling (or incapable) of running a tight ship. If you're paid a lot of money (>£100K in some cases) then you should have the expertise and the balls to control costs.

Your rottweiler deserves promotion - and some managerial heads above her should be culled to make the space.

Wordsmith

Originally Posted by Cabana

My question exactly. I would also want to know why they are ordering pizzas? Surely thats not the healthiest food for people?

Patients on a long stay in hospital need some variety & the odd pizza might actually cheer them up adding to their emothinal welfare which strangely enough can help the healing process.

Originally Posted by Cabana

Why is it government organisations pay well over the top for things? If they paid normal prices or bulk order prices, the country wouldn't be in as bad a state.

A combination of things. Centralised procurement is seen to be a bad, statist thing to do therefore the decisions should be devolved locally. Problem is that not only do bulk discounts go, the procurement managers will not necessarily be as highly trained to get the best result.

The alternative view is that because no one gets a bonus (or sacked if the result is vice-versa) for saving cash why bother?

Originally Posted by Cabana

My question exactly. I would also want to know why they are ordering pizzas? Surely thats not the healthiest food for people?

Why is it government organisations pay well over the top for things? If they paid normal prices or bulk order prices, the country wouldn't be in as bad a state.

Its probably stuff on prescription to outpatients rather than patients IN the hospital. At work we deal with LOADS of it. And I regularly think its a complete waste of resources. Unemployed scrotes and 60+ not buying there own food and getting it free from the NHS. Pure staples like bread are one thing. But when you have a patient getting 2 types of loaf, 2 types of pasta, bread rolls, cake mix and 3 or 4 different types of biscuit EVERY MONTH it starts to boil my piss. Then of course there is the liquid feed type stuff (Ensure and the like). A distressing ammount of jumkie scum get loads of that eery month because they don't eat otherwise. So what? Let the fuckers starve.

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

A combination of things. Centralised procurement is seen to be a bad, statist thing to do therefore the decisions should be devolved locally. Problem is that not only do bulk discounts go, the procurement managers will not necessarily be as highly trained to get the best result.

The alternative view is that because no one gets a bonus (or sacked if the result is vice-versa) for saving cash why bother?

Sorry C_P, but I disagree: it's probably a shit PFI contract. Fucking everything to do with supply in the NHS is privatised these days, and PFI to shunt the cost forwards. That said, it could still be a PFI contract at a local level I suppose.

Originally Posted by Wordsmith

Your rottweiler deserves promotion - and some managerial heads above her should be culled to make the space.

I think she's doing quite well as she is - she's already pretty senior, but no so much so that we can't have a good working relationship. Funny thing is that she is a willowy blonde who comes across as a complete dizzy bird until you hear her conducting business. Her child's school rang to complain about an unauthorised absence while I was with her one day & I actually feared for the head teacher at the other end's sanity once the rottweiler had done with her.

The other thing I loved as how she grilled a budget manager for having proposed too little budget for something. The attitude was this was (a) sloppy & showed no thought; or (b) if too small an amount was allowed we would not be providing the service the patients needed; or (c) if that little money had been allowed did we, conversely, need to provide the service at all.

It was the closest I've ever seen to a Public Sector Manager bellowing, "you are an idle, 'orrible little person. SHOW AGAIN!" There are people able to do this in the NHS, we just need more of them!

Originally Posted by count_duckula

Sorry C_P, but I disagree: it's probably a shit PFI contract. Fucking everything to do with supply in the NHS is privatised these days, and PFI to shunt the cost forwards. That said, it could still be a PFI contract at a local level I suppose.

This case probably is PFI. However every Trust I have worked for has had its own procurement department of varying size going out & doing deals with suppliers for all but things like some clinical supplies, agency staff & stationery.

I'd actually prefer that more was done by procurement as at least there's some control. When stuff is just ordered by local management (or even worse a clinician) then all manner of horrors arise!

It's going to be a key challenge when I move to my permanent post in August. There never has been a purchase order system & while the headmaster is keen that one be put in place just so we can have a bit of control the teaching staff are very keen that one is not...