ARmy Rumour SErvice

**mercurydancer** · 16-05-2012, 23:02

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

Regionalisation will be fought off for the same reason that amalgamations are (I know, I said this elsewhere) for the simple reason that it will kill off a lot of hopeful management careers. You could cull right down to the minimum. Single HR would create the same scenario amongst the civil service. As for centralised services, well that's happening now, however in doing so they will prove to be an attractive target for privatisation. Take Scientific Support for instance. That Dept has already been civilianised so change is no great problem there. It's also one of the most expensive resources under the Force budget. Why not privatise it? Save a lot of money initially. I say initially as like every other initiative, it would gradually become more and more expensive, but that would be a problem for a future Government, not the one today, some of whose members would stand to cash in longer term. G4S and Servoca could run it and charge for the privilege. They already provide long and short term contracts to the police, so they have experience in recruitment. Once centralised, cull the management. Farther along the road re-negotiate contracts. There's an abundance of unemployed forensic scientists and graduates out there who'll work for you. The old school will gradually die off as did the old coppers who did the job before civilianisation. Wages will be lower and why provide vehicles when it's cheaper to insist upon essential car user and pay mileage. That department alone is probably the most ideal target for privatisation and there are people out there already looking at it for that purpose. ACME Scenes of Crime...is definitely the future, just let the police management do the leg work for the private companies by centralising the resources first.

What about CID? Easily privatised. There are enough retired coppers out there at varying ranks and experience who'll work for less than the current incumbents as they are in receipt of a pension which they can 'top up' (that actually features on some adverts). There's a recession on so why not go back to what you used to do for a while? Your in your early 50s and besides it's money for old rope. There are plenty Forces out there who are already employing civilian investigators (under different titles) in CID Offices, Professional Standards, Custody Areas and Financial Crime. The actual investigation part of policing doesn't actually need a policeman. This has already been recognised. In some areas I actually agree with it, but not all. If you look at PCSOs, they haven't been the success story that we've been fed. How far would privatisation go if, as and when it occurs?

Whilst there are many roles in the Police which can be done by civilians, I want a copper at my door if I've got a problem, not a G4S employee. The cops are getting shafted left, right and centre but once this Government have ridden rough shod over them, it's the general public who will suffer in the longer term. There's no way that the next Labour government will reverse any money saving initiative created by this lot. At the end of the day, it'll be us who will pay for the decisions that this current Government make concerning the police today.

Forget all the 'fat bastard' stuff, it's just a smoke screen. That chap who's been making all of the recommendations....?

POLICE INSPECTOR BLOG

Very many points I agree with

Fat police? it depends on the metrics by which you measure Body Mass Index. You could have a cop who is built like a brick shithouse but as muscle mass is more dense than fat, then a very fit cop could well have a higher BMI than a true lardarse.

I agree that there are now many highly qualified forensic scientists this certainly wasnt the case within the career spans of some policemen. Going back to the 1980s forensic science was by no means undeveloped but the numbers of qualified people ( and for that matter, the recognised courses for forensics) were not in abundance. It remains a moot point whether a forensic officer should be paid the same as a police officer or to their qualifications. Of course, the government is going to go for the cheapest option, but this isnt always the best option. My view is that the two jobs are different and should be evaluated on pay scales differently.

AB is right that some potential improvements to the police will not be taken because it amounts to turkeys voting for Christmas.

**hogspawn** · 17-05-2012, 00:17

Originally Posted by DeltaDog

I don't really like her, but it took guts to get up and tell it like it is. The Police need to stop whining and do what we pay them to.

Bollocks.

'the police' would quite happily do what 'you' pay them to do if they were fkin well allowed to.

Sadly everytime they try to, some Cnut cries 'human rights!' or 'racist!' or any other ist that will get them off.

Coppers get dragged through the shit and risk getting sacked for it so as a result next time think 'fck that'.

As a result the overall effectiveness drops. This is as a result of every fker thinking he can do the job better than the guys actually doing it and senior officers pandering to anyone and everyone instead of just doing the job and letting the results speak for themselves.

**Boumer** · 17-05-2012, 01:03

Originally Posted by BoomShackerLacker

"It's a detailed blueprint. On fitness, for instance, Mr Winsor spells out exactly what exercises would be required under the more rigorous tests he wants to see in 2018 - crawling, stair-climbing, cone-lifting, to name but three."

Versus ice-cream-cone licking...

This cheap post is actually far below your usual high standard mate, have a read of the below.

Yes, the 75 per cent of officers branded by the media as being overweight were, in fact, actually 75 per cent of those officers WHO ATTENDED A PROGRAMME FOR, AMONG OTHERS, THE OVERWEIGHT. And who, moreover, voluntarily joined the programme because they were determined to lose weight and get fit

Tom Winsor actually opens his comments on police fitness by admitting: “There is little data on the fitness of those in the police service” adding that when Hampshire Constabulary conducted a trial fitness test, 97 per cent of those who took it passed.

The TRUTH about Winsor – Overweight police officers. « POLICE INSPECTOR BLOG

Bit like offering an alcholics workshop, and then saying the Army has a disproportionate number of alcoholics on the basis of the statistical "evidence"

Mr Winsor is also apparently a partner in the law firm which helped G4S win a private contract with Lincolnshire police.

White & Case LLP - News - White & Case Advises G4S on £200 Million Police Authority Contract

Hmmmmmmmm!

So privatisation is not on the agenda.

Winsor, Vested Interests and Privatisation. « POLICE INSPECTOR BLOG

For the life of me I cannot see why this is kept off the mainstream media.

("it's all a conspiracy man")

Watch the bottom video for her face at "nice gimmick, Paul".

That's the look of a woman planning to drown everyone like unwanted kittens in revenge.
(So when she asks you to turn up to a meeting Tuesday, worry on monday-everyone knows she can't tell dates...)

Police officers turn on Theresa May over cuts - Channel 4 News

**jarrod248** · 17-05-2012, 01:17

We can write to our MP's and complain but that gets you nowhere. Nothing makes a difference they are accountable to no one.

**Boumer** · 17-05-2012, 01:25

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

What about CID? Easily privatised. There are enough retired coppers out there at varying ranks and experience who'll work for less than the current incumbents as they are in receipt of a pension which they can 'top up' (that actually features on some adverts). There's a recession on so why not go back to what you used to do for a while? Your in your early 50s and besides it's money for old rope. There are plenty Forces out there who are already employing civilian investigators (under different titles) in CID Offices, Professional Standards, Custody Areas and Financial Crime. The actual investigation part of policing doesn't actually need a policeman. This has already been recognised. In some areas I actually agree with it, but not all. If you look at PCSOs, they haven't been the success story that we've been fed. How far would privatisation go if, as and when it occurs?

As ever, very interesting points.

I saw this yesterday:

Researcher - London, UK - United Kingdom

So what I don't get is, if the back office can be cut and no effect on frontline service can be made....

Why are G4S recruiting?

So, do we really want complex enquiries run by "for profit" contractors with the peelers just the arrest team?

You will end up with a deskilled police force, and CID types will see no challenge, no professional growth and will likely wash their hands of it and take skills (paid for by public money) into the private sector.

if you are trained to evidential/court examiner standards as a computer forensic examiner now you can pull the yellow/black handel and leave.

What May doesn't appear to have considered is that in 15 years perhaps, when the service has been radically changed and is full of clever graduates all cutting each others throats (and the publics) for those increasingly scant promotions, the career pc and dc will have left: and need to be re-hired as an expensive contractor no doubt.

FFS, officers retired under A19 have been asked to return as volunteers!

Chief constables have no legal powers to make police officers redundant, but can forcibly retire those with more than 30 years service with 28 days notice under an obscure A19 provision of the police pension regulations on grounds of efficiency of the force

Hence Winsor's recommendation 46:

The Police Regulations 2003 should be amended to create a system of compulsory severance for police officers with less than full pensionable service from April 2013

.

Forcibly retired police officers invited to return as volunteers | UK news | guardian.co.uk

As ever, the politicians can prove me wrong by privatising their protection details first.

**Boumer** · 17-05-2012, 01:26

Originally Posted by jarrod248

We can write to our MP's and complain but that gets you nowhere. Nothing makes a difference they are accountable to no one.

I wrote to mine and got a hysterical response!

Last time I bother with that.

**jarrod248** · 17-05-2012, 01:34

Originally Posted by Boumer

I wrote to mine and got a hysterical response!

Last time I bother with that.

Waste of time, you get a response but it makes no difference and I've done it loads of times. We have no say and no influence.

**ugly** · 17-05-2012, 08:35

The fed is missing the point as usual, instead of proving that Winsor terms of enquiry were wrong and unfair and a new enquiry with a clear remit to cut the fat (should prove interesting) should be instigated at the cost of Winsors firm if they are proven to have ignored the original remit (I suspect it was more like "If you want privatised plod divide and conquer, first break the rank and file then we will retire the seniors). The HO and its corporate sponsors (Tory party sponssors) want looking at, public probity in office is appalling and should be stamped on.
If plod want their pensions kept safe and all the ones I know certainly do then the fed should get the courts to force the govt to carry out a proper review using all options including privatisation and natinalisation of the police services into one single force. If not they cant claim the unfair bit and certainly dont deserve their money!

**Boumer** · 17-05-2012, 08:59

Originally Posted by ugly

The fed is missing the point as usual, instead of proving that Winsor terms of enquiry were wrong and unfair and a new enquiry with a clear remit to cut the fat (should prove interesting) should be instigated at the cost of Winsors firm if they are proven to have ignored the original remit (I suspect it was more like "If you want privatised plod divide and conquer, first break the rank and file then we will retire the seniors). The HO and its corporate sponsors (Tory party sponssors) want looking at, public probity in office is appalling and should be stamped on.
If plod want their pensions kept safe and all the ones I know certainly do then the fed should get the courts to force the govt to carry out a proper review using all options including privatisation and natinalisation of the police services into one single force. If not they cant claim the unfair bit and certainly dont deserve their money!

Oddly that's what I was saying to a mate yesterday, that I hope the Fed can tie most of that Winsor report up in knots for years through legal appeal.

I appreciate I signed away most of my rights on joining, but there is a bloody limit. Being a police officer in permanent fear of privatisation is silly. Bit like a nurse, firefighter etc.

This government is nakedly ideologically driven. I don't know how Clegg sits their next to Dave, who is wisely acting like Stalin and getting him to dip his pen in the blood of his enemies too and tie him every deeper into this government.

**ugly** · 17-05-2012, 09:17

"I don't know how Clegg sits their next to Dave, who is wisely acting like Stalin and getting him to dip his pen in the blood of his enemies too and tie him every deeper into this government. "
fear of losing what he thinks he has gained, the first Liberal in any real office since the natinal Govt under Winston? If he bails now he will be tainted, he lost out big time getting in bed with CMD and I suspect he knows it. A bit like two jags, the union voted for him and Princess Tony couldnt ignore them totally just sideline him and give him the unimportant and unpopular shit jobs, it means he has sold his soul to the deviland wont get anything for it!