ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Wordsmith

When Margaret Thatcher came to power, she had Keith Joseph as an advisor. He reportedly showed her a complex flowchart which demonstrated how problems in one sector of the UK were related to problems in another sector. Thatcher then took a holistic approach to UK PLC and took a series of actions designed to act on the whole set of interconnected problems. There will always be debate about the merits and success of those actions, but that's the last time I can recall a UK government employing joined up, long term thinking.

All governments since then have rushed about with Initiative A or Initiative B without showing how they fit into a coherent, long term plan for restoring the UK's fortunes. The current coalition is no exception. My joined up thinking would run on the lines of:

1) We cannot have the public services we desire without growing the economy to pay for them
2) In order to grow the economy we must:

-- Have a plan to make our industries and services competitive world wide
-- Grow our exports and reduce our imports
-- Improve our educational systems so they deliver a skilled workforce
-- Improve our business environment so that business operates in an environment that rewards good governance and entrepreneurship.
-- Improve our banking sector so that excessive risk taking is eliminated
-- Develop the infrastructure to support that business environment
-- Etc.

3) Set out 5, 10 and 20 year plans for UK PLC with clear benchmarks with which to measure progress.
4) Communicate those plans to the UK population without spin and in such a manner that you achieve a broad consensus for those plans.

All political parties have become too obsessed with spin and short term political advantage and too little concerned with managing the economy over long time periods.

Wordsmith

Hmm Thatcher perhaps is not a good example. If she was holistic I'll show my arse on the town hall steps. I do agree with many of your other points but unfortunately politicians think very short term.

Originally Posted by bigjimdangley

Whilst I'm for it in priciple. It'd only work if there were actually jobs that peolple could do instead of signing on.

Is there?

There would be if the country wasn't full of foreigners.

Originally Posted by EX_STAB

There would be if the country wasn't full of foreigners.

In the late 80s I was looking to recruit some staff for a business I was running in Swindon. I went to the Job Centre and was informed that there were 1,500 unemployed in Swindon at that time and they were unemployed because they wanted to be! I asked them to send me candidates anyway. They sent me ten, 3 turned up for interview, 2 were offered the job but never turned up for work and the other refused the offer. It's a good job there are foreigners who are willing to work if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Robbeaus

Actually we can! The only people who want us to beleave that there is no money, are those who want to give £40,000 tax cuts to millionaires as well as not bothering the banks for the repayment of the money they lifted from the gullible government of the day.
Benefits are paid by contributions known as NI contributions, these payments made by the working tax payer are hypothecated for the payment of benefits for those who have paid there contributions. Which means that they are not mixed up with general tax or spending, and never have been. This fund has been in surplus every year since 1979, when the great asset striper adolf thatcher started to con the public. The reason why the government don't let you know any of this is they want to treat you all like sheep and do there dirty work, in stripping paid for benefits from those who when they were working paid there contributions when they were able to work.
Think of it like this, you paid into an insurance policy called GB Plc, your wife dies and the said same insurance company tells you to get stuffed, it ain't paying you. Feel great, you do not.
Don't think of NI contributions as just another tax, but that insurance policy GB Plc?
Shafted?
Yep welcome to the great benefit con.

With all due respect, balls.
The NI system was, and has been for decades, a gloriously legal Ponzi pyramid scheme.
There was never any investment function. The taxpayer of the day simply paid the benefits of the claimants of the day. Yes, his contributions were recorded, on the nebulous hope that when they came to retire that there would be enough taxpayers to fund them.

Given the demographic bulge, (which was visible over the horizon at least twenty years ago) there is going to be a shedload of claimants all waving their pension books come 2030, and a serious shortage of current taxpayers to scalp.

You may be confused with the iussue of 'Unallocated' NI. This is NOT cash. That's all gone. What it is, is NI paid in the UK by foreigners, people with no NI number, or garbled payroll data. The NICs should go on someones account to contribute towards those pensions they may or may not eventually receive. It's just a suspense account. Until the taxpayer comes forward to claim them, they just sit there. The owner still has the right to them, but they aren't doing anything.

As the Government Actuaries say:
http://www.gad.gov.uk/Documents/Soci...eport_2012.pdf

"The balance in the Fund at 31 March 2013 is estimated at £32.3 billion, or 37% of the
estimated benefit payments (including redundancy payments) of £86.7 billion in the
year 2012-13."

The rest is made up of Income Tax and other receipts.

Originally Posted by HectortheInspector

With all due respect, balls.
The NI system was, and has been for decades, a gloriously legal Ponzi pyramid scheme.
There was never any investment function. The taxpayer of the day simply paid the benefits of the claimants of the day. Yes, his contributions were recorded, on the nebulous hope that when they came to retire that there would be enough taxpayers to fund them.

Given the demographic bulge, (which was visible over the horizon at least twenty years ago) there is going to be a shedload of claimants all waving their pension books come 2030, and a serious shortage of current taxpayers to scalp.

You may be confused with the iussue of 'Unallocated' NI. This is NOT cash. That's all gone. What it is, is NI paid in the UK by foreigners, people with no NI number, or garbled payroll data. The NICs should go on someones account to contribute towards those pensions they may or may not eventually receive. It's just a suspense account. Until the taxpayer comes forward to claim them, they just sit there. The owner still has the right to them, but they aren't doing anything.

As the Government Actuaries say:
http://www.gad.gov.uk/Documents/Soci...eport_2012.pdf

"The balance in the Fund at 31 March 2013 is estimated at £32.3 billion, or 37% of the
estimated benefit payments (including redundancy payments) of £86.7 billion in the
year 2012-13."

The rest is made up of Income Tax and other receipts.

Is that why Opted-Out pension contributions were introduced then?

Originally Posted by Markintime

Is that why Opted-Out pension contributions were introduced then?

The opted-out NICs were a sort of half way house. There's the mandatory 'basic pension' and something that's called the 'second pension' (what used to be called SERPS-State Earnings Related Pension Scheme). The 'basic' element qualifed you for unemployment benefit etc. The rest was proportionate to your earnings up to a ceiling.

If your employer (Like the Government, NHS , HM Forces or many big commercial firms) had its own pension scheme, you could be 'opted out' and pay the SERPS element into that. I beleive that now you can 'contract yourself' out in some circumstances by private arrangement.

Now, with the big companies and Government retreating from running their own pensions schemes, its up to the employee to take out any additional private pensions, or the State Pension scheme will be left to pick up the slack.

(With the proviso that I'm a few years out of the HMRC envelope-it's become insanely more complicated since I left- Thanks, Gordon.)

http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.o...ut-of-serpss2p

Originally Posted by Grumblegrunt

...
Euthanasia bounties are a great idea, just need explaining better and a signature when the person is compus mentus. The elderly care bill is massive and going to get worse. if you went around a care home and offered them a nice holiday of a lifetime while they were still fit enough to enjoy it and 50k-100k to pass on in return for an early exit you would get a lot of takers, save billions, balance the economy as the windfalls reach the base economy and free up loads of housing stock.

daytime tv viewing figures would take a massive hit but I can live with that

No need to be pampering the bed blockers and why wait for the care home? Just approach the children with their greedy little eyes on grans overvalued house.

Options:
o Property seizure by Harry The Bastard's humaine services PLC to pay for your selfishly vital loved
one's very expensive care until it becomes fully your responsibility, lets see at 20K a month
that's in 17 months time
o Full legal disclaimer, 20K to HTBhs PLC, full bed to grave services provided
o Full legal disclaimer, quick tutorial on the pillow as offensive weapon from HTBhs PLC,
that'll be a tenner, Mastarcard is fine

Under 50s "early bird" two for one reduced rate bonus available for this month only!

Why it's the Big Society at work!

Originally Posted by jarrod248

You'd better not mean me mister.

Not at all. Those who know, know.