ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Troy

The day will come when "regligous" is taken to be "mentally ill - care in the community case".

Well you could argue that there's no point in believing in a god who invented phlegm and tooth decay, I suppose.

But if you're really consigning the architects of Florence cathedral, the Suleiman mosque in Istanbul, painters like Michaelangelo, Bellini, (cuts and pastes loads more Renaissance religious artists from Wiki) and the 2000 years of culture inspired by religion to the 'care in the community / retard bin' then you've got a lot to learn about civilisation.

Originally Posted by HectortheInspector

Oh? Just which sort of Christian are you then? The 'Smiting the unbeliever hip and thigh' and 'Shalt not suffer a witch to live' sort? or something a bit warmer and fluffier?

The OP is about Muslim extremists and the role our government and moderate Muslims should play in response to the extremists.

But since you ask I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, that it is the inspired word of God and that Jesus is the only way the truth and the life.

As a self-described 'boffin' (Scientist) surely even taking religion as an act of faith without evidence should be anathema to you?

I have all the evidence I need, and more.
The Dead Sea Scrolls showing that the Bible's Old Testament has been preserved in verbatim over the years.
The beyond ingenious design of the most simple cell to the complex ecosystems. As an engineer I marvel at the ability of all living creatures to self-repair, feed themselves and self-replicate. Something no machine has been able to do.
Irreducible complexity.
Evolution does not answer how species came about. Macroevolution has never been observed, nor does the fossil record show species' transitions. Microevolution exists but is a separate matter.
No credible refutation of Jesus' life, death and resurrection.
That the Bible is the only religious text that prophecises about the future, and gets it right.

Even now, most casualties, are Muslim on Muslim. We just sometimes get caught in the middle of an ongoing sectarian civil war thats been going on for centuries. Asking them to condemn the extremists is a bit problematic- They tend to all be 'devout' but in different directions. To them, the other buggers are ALL extremist sectarian splitters, and they will happily denounce them.

Well then, the moderate Muslims should have no problems agreeing with the statements posed, then?

Is this all about religion then? Here was me thinking it's about hate and brainwashed angry people wound up by kuntz, wanting to kill lots of nasty unbelievers.

Originally Posted by IndependentBoffin

Where do you think our morals come from?

Morals needn't have any connection with organised religon at all.

Simple example of this. Tribes in parts of the world that live in such harmony that they don't even have words for Theft, Rape, Adultry and many other things. After a visit from so-called missionaries they begin to decline. There are many cases like this, although all the "church" wouldn't put it quite like that.

Originally Posted by King_of_the_Burpas

Well you could argue that there's no point in believing in a god who invented phlegm and tooth decay, I suppose.

But if you're really consigning the architects of Florence cathedral, the Suleiman mosque in Istanbul, painters like Michaelangelo, Bellini, (cuts and pastes loads more Renaissance religious artists from Wiki) and the 2000 years of culture inspired by religion to the 'care in the community / retard bin' then you've got a lot to learn about civilisation.

Here's a thought. All those things paid for through collections/donations from very poor people so that "high-ranking clergy" could live and work in luxury. Forbid the clergy to marry so there's no property or inheritance issues and eventually the church becomes rich enough and with enough brainwashed followers to become a political power. Many of those artists might have quite liked to paint or create other art subjects instead, but the "churches" called the tune. Remember, they had the power to declare "heresy" and such like and in this way they had the power of life and death over people. I don't call that particularly civilised.

Meanwhile, back on topic this seems the latest News I could find:
U.K. Police Arrest Five Terror Suspects - WSJ.com

Originally Posted by Troy

Here's a thought. All those things paid for through collections/donations from very poor people so that "high-ranking clergy" could live and work in luxury. Forbid the clergy to marry so there's no property or inheritance issues and eventually the church becomes rich enough and with enough brainwashed followers to become a political power. Many of those artists might have quite liked to paint or create other art subjects instead, but the "churches" called the tune. Remember, they had the power to declare "heresy" and such like and in this way they had the power of life and death over people. I don't call that particularly civilised.

Any Christian who loves money seeks to serve two masters, and in the end rather than money serving him they become a servant to money.

Money in itself is not evil, but the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

Originally Posted by Troy

Many of those artists might have quite liked to paint or create other art subjects instead.

Not sure that Michaelangelo's "The Hedgehog" would still be attracting admirers. Nor indeed would Sinan's Humanist Bus Shelter.

I don't want to get all Romantic about it because all these arguments are always circular, but I can't help thinking of Harry Lime's view about all this.

I don't know how many articles you've 'visited' but to write off all the riches of Christian and Islamic and Jewish cultures because they don't fit into your 'rational' view of the universe is an act of mongery that will not go unpunished.