ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by RP578

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My bold; if Yaakov finds bringing up 7 kids on just state benefits hard, he could always get a job like the rest of his countrymen. Then again if reading the Torah all day is defending their nation, should they get medals for this?

This follows:

As a compromise, he suggested that yeshiva students who were not truly devoted to Torah studies – around one-third, he thought – should serve in the army. But this was provided, of course, that they were served kosher food, given enough time to pray and segregated from women.
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Some compromise, I assume the IDF generally serves kosher but is it the wrong kind of kosher? They aren't going to like the bit about the ladies.

I find having a large part of the community living on benefits and paying no taxes more problematic than them not wishing to serve. You might compare it to being a enclosed order Monk, another essentially parasitic but traditional way of life, one that is supported in devoutly Papist or Orthodox countries and often not notably lazy. The difference is most Israelis aren't really very religious Jews and simply don't see the point in a life of prayer and learning.

This is an entirely political clash between Israel's socio-militarist state and a traditional way of being a good Jew. There is almost no merit in having them serve. Israel has no shortage of reluctant pissed off conscripts, more will not increase the small pool of quality soldiers that are the IDF's cutting edge. That resentment is at the root of the populist politics that is behind this.

Militarily massed conscription is an outdated concept that most modern industrial nations have abandoned in favor of smaller high tech professional forces. This isn't 48 either, a nuclear armed Israel's defense no longer rests on massed militia men, anymore than Switzerland's does. Only 50% of potential conscripts actually serve anyway, there are other exemptions, you can simply refuse or be rapidly classed as unfit, being "under motivated" included.

The IDF in reality serves a similar social purpose to the Swiss militia, unifying a pretty diverse people, most of it's just an heavily armed scout troop. Its weakness showed in the last Lebanese war, many reservists units did not perform well against better motivated HA village militias. They are a constant source of discipline problems in policing ops and the strategically dubious business of protecting settlers in Judea and Samaria.

The beards might argue mass conscription of the nation's youth is a far bigger drain on national resources than the minority occupation of Torah studies which are certainly much cheaper than three years of pointless military hijinks and as a defensive measure has about as much value.

Originally Posted by alib

This follows:Some compromise, I assume the IDF generally serves kosher but is it the wrong kind of kosher? They aren't going to like the bit about the ladies.

The IDF already have a specific unit tailor-made to allow the Haredim to serve. The Netzah Yehuda Battalion has strict dietary regulations in observance with their belief and the only females allowed on its base are wives and relations of the servicemen. The vast majority of Haredi men however prefer total exemption.

The Shahar program channels Haredi men aged 22 to 26 to serve in the army for about 18 months, half the time other males are required to serve. The Shahr program incorporates basic education lessons which theses guys don't get at their Haredi schools (maths, English etc.) and is a means of directing the Haredi into entering the workforce.