Originally Posted by Pyianno

Again, that is a problem to which privatisation is not the solution.

This is unfortunately the Tory approach - 'The NHS has problems that can only be addressed by reform', 'privatisation is a reform idea', 'we must privatise to solve problems'.

It must be said that I am not, a priori, opposed to privatisation. However the history of Conservative governments in particular is that they are extremely poor at implementing their own policies and in the long run, privatisation has not solved the problem it was intended to. Rail, energy and utilities still run at massive public subsidy and direct costs to the consumer (putting aside the taxation contribution) is ever climbing.

Energy and Utilities run at massive public subsidy, evidence please. Name names, shame those wicked capitalists

Either that or talk about something that you have either a) personal knowledge as opposed to what you read in press, b) something you are qualified to talk about.

I appreciate you orginally posted regarding the government's plans to force through legislation that you object to, and I could see your point but not agree with it. Whereas now you are exposing your ignorance on the subject by making half witted assertions

Originally Posted by mush_dad

Energy and Utilities run at massive public subsidy, evidence please. Name names, shame those wicked capitalists

Either that or talk about something that you have either a) personal knowledge as opposed to what you read in press, b) something you are qualified to talk about.

I appreciate you orginally posted regarding the government's plans to force through legislation that you object to, and I could see your point but not agree with it. Whereas now you are exposing your ignorance on the subject by making half witted assertions

Have you ever heard of wind turbines? Nuclear has never paid for itself. The 'Green' agenda is by its very nature not commercial.

It's no good telling somebody they don't know what they're talking about if you don't produce evidence to the contrary.

The cost of wind turbines, and nuclear has bugger all to do with privatisation. EU dictats for the former, years of prevarication on clean up costs by previous governments (lab and cons) for the latter.

Originally Posted by mush_dad

The cost of wind turbines, and nuclear has bugger all to do with privatisation. EU dictats for the former, years of prevarication on clean up costs by previous governments (lab and cons) for the latter.

The economic argument at the time for getting rid of coal and relying upon foreign imports of fossil fuels was that coal didn't pay for itself.

Ironically the 'future' of British energy production doesn't pay for itself either.

Originally Posted by Pyianno

The economic argument at the time for getting rid of coal and relying upon foreign imports of fossil fuels was that coal didn't pay for itself.

Ironically the 'future' of British energy production doesn't pay for itself either.

Just to add - this was the same argument that was given for privatising the railways, which also still don't pay for themselves and profits are subsidised by the tax payer.

Originally Posted by Pyianno

Just to add - this was the same argument that was given for privatising the railways, which also still don't pay for themselves and profits are subsidised by the tax payer.

Oh I thought rail companies paid a massive amount to the govt for a franchise.

Originally Posted by jarrod248

Oh I thought rail companies paid a massive amount to the govt for a franchise.

The faustian pact which has been reached is that the government commands the right to regulate price increases on the railways, and the railways in turn can have their profits underwritten by tax payers. This is not true of all franchises but it is the demented deal that Liebour cooked up for a few. Have a read of the excellent 'signal failures' column in Private Eye.

Originally Posted by jarrod248

Oh I thought rail companies paid a massive amount to the govt for a franchise.

They do, but they receive phenomenal subsidies from the taxpayer to meet contractual targets. The franchise then insists that when they inevitably fail it was a lack of government funding and so put prices up well beyond inflation. This is at the same time as the country's rolling stock being sold off and leased back, making it "too expensive" for additional carriages on busy services. National Express were so shit the government eventually gave up and re-nationalised the GNER line as "East Coast".

Originally Posted by Kitmarlowe

Ah yes......Doctors... So damm quick to protect their own interests. yet incapable of getting rid of crap Doctors who should be struck off and stoppped from practising along with so damm quick to to blow the whistle when management allow patients to die rather than treat them properly

Even doctors are now in thrall to administrators and managers. Senior medical whistleblowers are annihilated; fired, sued and have their characters attacked and defamed. There is actually a step-process for this, described in recent Private Eye. I fail to see how doctors are supposed to be the bad guys. ALL healthcare professionals are being binned, even doctors' numbers are dropping. This will affect everyone as health problems build up due to lack of treatment, leading to a mound of complications further along the road. Our short-termist politicians are fucking us up.

Lansley is portraying himself as a crusader against medical self-interest, referring to the resistance to the creation of the NHS. The situation now is completely different as the country in the late '40s had been shattered and we had an Empire of which to divest ourselves, as well as the high levels of industrial and war casualties. Lansley is a fool and they are going to hang this around his neck. The plan has been poorly thought up by someone with no NHS or medical experience whatsoever and has been opposed by every significant medical union but for the surgeons. There are some people on this site who think doctors are standing around braziers like the miners' strike, this is about professionals giving educated and informed opposition to neutered, half-arsed proposals.

Quite a lot of influential Conservative press and politicians now coming out calling for the Bill to be scrapped.