Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

Then our cross-town rival decided to buy/build a better carrier than you had.

Who is the cross town rival? China?

Originally Posted by AndyPipkin

According to the Telegraph:

Britain had to plead with US to take part in Iran flotilla - Telegraph

We really are just pathetic hangers on really. Have been for years, it's just becoming more open and embarrassing now.

this

Originally Posted by AndyPipkin

According to the Telegraph:

Britain had to plead with US to take part in Iran flotilla - Telegraph

We really are just pathetic hangers on really. Have been for years, it's just becoming more open and embarrassing now.

This is nothing new really - the special relationship is a one sided deal, nobody stateside would know what you are talking about if you mentioned it. Political focus is on France / Germany as new Euro leaders, UK is viewed as a country in decline and unfortunately the military too. The Helmand issue from Wiki, the Bravo two zero walt-fest and then the biblical reductions and cut backs make the quality and delivery aspect of the UK mil. and future UK mil. weak.
Hanging on to past glories is part of the pride and culture but at some point you have to look at what is going on now and how to impact-fully move forward - the US sees an economy based on service and a well trained but ineffectual military.

Originally Posted by redshift

Who is the cross town rival? China?

Yes.

Originally Posted by mac1

this

Read this thread and you realise that UK Defence has been reduced in the eyes of some to a level where we don't even need enemies to defeat ourselves - we're clearly just shite.

Sadly, for those who seem to think that particularly given the latest cuts, we are scarcely more capable than an ATC Flight you would be surprised at how much capability we have. We need to stop comparing ourselves against the upstart son, the US, and look at ourselves against the noisy neighbours, France etc. Anyone like me who served a tough Exchange tour in Oz would know what I mean.

The biggest problem we have is not having a sense of national direction, let alone a direction for Defence. One stems from the other.

Originally Posted by Bubbles_Barker

Sadly, for those who seem to think that particularly given the latest cuts, we are scarcely more capable than an ATC Flight you would be surprised at how much capability we have. We need to stop comparing ourselves against the upstart son, the US, and look at ourselves against the noisy neighbours, France etc. Anyone like me who served a tough Exchange tour in Oz would know what I mean.

The biggest problem we have is not having a sense of national direction, let alone a direction for Defence. One stems from the other.

Amen. As an outsider, this is the view I currently hold on all this drivel being dished up. Your politicians still like to "big themselves up" on the world stage while at the same time cutting down the resources to the bare minimums.

It's not that the U.K. forces are bad (quite the opposite, if anything) or lack in capabilities, it's just that they're being overstretched in all directions with resourcing constraints. Doesn't matter how good and efficient they are, there's only so many places a man can be. Ask us, even with the overwhelming application of force and suppression, we barely managed to achieve (and hold) some of the objectives on the ground.

Your gov't needs to sort its policy out, stop fucking about and set a firm and realistic policy in place. And budget the armed forces accordingly. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. No matter how much you "punch above your weight."

Also, the sun did set over the Empire a while ago, but the whiff of colonial hangover is like a fucking Albatross around your necks,that mindset needs to be thrown out. What you guys need is a fresh and dynamic approach to the modern day issues and policy decisions to go along with them.

Originally Posted by redshift

Amen. As an outsider, this is the view I currently hold on all this drivel being dished up. Your politicians still like to "big themselves up" on the world stage while at the same time cutting down the resources to the bare minimums.

It's not that the U.K. forces are bad (quite the opposite, if anything) or lack in capabilities, it's just that they're being overstretched in all directions with resourcing constraints. Doesn't matter how good and efficient they are, there's only so many places a man can be. Ask us, even with the overwhelming application of force and suppression, we barely managed to achieve (and hold) some of the objectives on the ground.

Your gov't needs to sort its policy out, stop fucking about and set a firm and realistic policy in place. And budget the armed forces accordingly. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. No matter how much you "punch above your weight."

Also, the sun did set over the Empire a while ago, but the whiff of colonial hangover is like a fucking Albatross around your necks,that mindset needs to be thrown out. What you guys need is a fresh and dynamic approach to the modern day issues and policy decisions to go along with them.

That's just bang on - and i wish the politicians and "decision makers" got it too.
The whole direction needs an external fucking audit.

We've always been irrelavant.

Harking back to the Boxer Rebellion and other places where we made a notably good account of ourselves (Borneo, Malaya, Aden ect) would go someway to show how white hot we were when dealing with small numbers of pissed off locals.

All we do now is ride shirt tails of others, our bark is far bigger than our bite and it always has been, we are the biggest bluffers on the International scene. We were told off the cuff in Norway by an instructor that our Brigade's responsibility to look after the Northern Flank was bollocks and we would have seen a swift end should the balloon have gone up, all the Cold War was, was a never ending circle of posturing and muscle flexing. We would be fucked if someone had a right pop at us now, in my opinion.

Who gives a shit - unless there is a credible and direct threat - not some bullshit lies that were manufactured by Blair/Campbell et al everyone should stay at home an mind their own business.

Having the military posture of say Denmark would be more appropriate I'd think.

Originally Posted by redshift

Amen. As an outsider, this is the view I currently hold on all this drivel being dished up. Your politicians still like to "big themselves up" on the world stage while at the same time cutting down the resources to the bare minimums.

It's not that the U.K. forces are bad (quite the opposite, if anything) or lack in capabilities, it's just that they're being overstretched in all directions with resourcing constraints. Doesn't matter how good and efficient they are, there's only so many places a man can be. Ask us, even with the overwhelming application of force and suppression, we barely managed to achieve (and hold) some of the objectives on the ground.

Your gov't needs to sort its policy out, stop fucking about and set a firm and realistic policy in place. And budget the armed forces accordingly. At the end of the day, you get what you pay for. No matter how much you "punch above your weight."

Also, the sun did set over the Empire a while ago, but the whiff of colonial hangover is like a fucking Albatross around your necks,that mindset needs to be thrown out. What you guys need is a fresh and dynamic approach to the modern day issues and policy decisions to go along with them.

this as well - was gonna reply to bubbles' post, but don't need to - the UK doing what it can with what it has WELL, not making the news for all the wrong reasons because it tries to do what it can't.