A White Paper on the future of Defence Spending has said that in future the MoD's purchases will be decided on

"open competition in the domestic and global market, buying off-the-shelf where appropriate".

And that "We will look first for products that are proven".

It goes on to say that "The MoD does not consider wider employment, industrial, or economic factors in its value for money assessments"

So, is this an end to Defence R&D in the UK and a move to buying other nations ships, vehicles etc.. which have been proven already. An end to prototypes with "Made in Britain" stamped on them, or simple a bump in the road?

Would this mean that companies like BAE ill go to the wall? Will the RAF try to order French jets instead of the Eurofighter like India?

And will it matter to the Services where the kit is sourced from? Will we miss BAE's products, or just their waterproof ammo bags?

Thoughts Arrsers?

Stupid idea.

Can the MoD use this idea retrospectively? If so, Westland - you owe us £2 Billion please.

Originally Posted by The-Lord-Flasheart

Can the MoD use this idea retrospectively? If so, Westland - you owe us £2 Billion please.

Is the Noble Lord suggesting that Wasteland re-inventing the Blackhawk wheel at huge expense with the Merlin was not the most gifted and far sighted of decisions of all time and gave the MOD a world class capability and the UK a fantastic export success at no huge expense to the taxpayer?

I mean, look at what a flop that Blackhawk has been, its only sold 3,000 units compared with our fantastic Merlin thats stormed the market and sold <cough> not a lot Minister <cough>

I wasnt on about Merlin but the Gazelle replacement. Now you mention it, Westland - you owe us a fuck load more than a few billion.

Originally Posted by The-Lord-Flasheart

I wasnt on about Merlin but the Gazelle replacement. Now you mention it, Westland - you owe us a fuck load more than a few billion.

£26 Million squid teeny weenies? Bargain!

Thoughts Arrsers?

I recall reading about this in The Times last Thursday... Seems like the propagation of news down to the lower ranking media such as commercial radio is as slow as it ever was.

Naturally the sacred three* will still be sourced in the UK.

If it was up to me, the vast majority of our Equipment would be made only in Great Britain. We should be independant of foreign suppliers and net exporters of stuff that we use ourselves.





*Sacred three; Nuclear, Communications and Crypography.

It's a tricky old world. "Off the shelf, proven" means "less than state of the art". "State of the art" means unproven, requiring development.

Take JSF. You can have F/A-18s for pennies on the dollar, and loads of them, or you can wait for, and pay through the nose for, F-35. It may well be an F/A-18 killer though.

Or A400M. You can wait for, and pay through the nose for, very few A400Ms. Or you can have as many C-130Js as you like. They might be a bit small though.

And somewhere in the middle is where we ought to be. Perhaps a proven airframe with some new wiggly amps to make the best of it. But even then, it can go woefully, woefully wrong. Chinook 3? Nah, we'll order them as that, but we'll waste a decade and several hundred million making sure we only get Mk 2.5s.

As said, Blackhawks, a tenner a copy. How many do you want? Nope, we'll take some homegrown thing and use that. About a thousand times more expensive. It's got a glass flight deck too. Wait, no, let's give it to the Navy when the Sea Kings peg it. Well if we do that, we'll need new avionics...

FOR CHRIST's SAKE!!! Throw BAe and Westlands to the wolves and buy American. Get it over with. It's coming anyway, even BAe know that. They're now a majority American company. Westlands is majority Italian, so just get the pain over with and save some serious geld.

As soon as Eurofighter is through it's production phase, Wart-on is royally fucked, and with it the rest of BAe UK.

Originally Posted by roadster280

It's a tricky old world. "Off the shelf, proven" means "less than state of the art". "State of the art" means unproven, requiring development.

Take JSF. You can have F/A-18s for pennies on the dollar, and loads of them, or you can wait for, and pay through the nose for, F-35. It may well be an F/A-18 killer though.

Or A400M. You can wait for, and pay through the nose for, very few A400Ms. Or you can have as many C-130Js as you like. They might be a bit small though.

And somewhere in the middle is where we ought to be. Perhaps a proven airframe with some new wiggly amps to make the best of it. But even then, it can go woefully, woefully wrong. Chinook 3? Nah, we'll order them as that, but we'll waste a decade and several hundred million making sure we only get Mk 2.5s.

As said, Blackhawks, a tenner a copy. How many do you want? Nope, we'll take some homegrown thing and use that. About a thousand times more expensive. It's got a glass flight deck too. Wait, no, let's give it to the Navy when the Sea Kings peg it. Well if we do that, we'll need new avionics...

FOR CHRIST's SAKE!!! Throw BAe and Westlands to the wolves and buy American. Get it over with. It's coming anyway, even BAe know that. They're now a majority American company. Westlands is majority Italian, so just get the pain over with and save some serious geld.

As soon as Eurofighter is through it's production phase, Wart-on is royally fucked, and with it the rest of BAe UK.

But where will senior Civil Servants and about-to-be retired officers get a second career if we cast off (US)BAe and AgustaWestland??

I always thought that MOD procurement needed to consider maintaining a manufacturing capability within the UK for certain defence items, such as ships, electronics, vehicles, ammo etc etc.