Originally Posted by Plant-Pilot

Which reiterates my point: If you can afford to invest so heavily in a country, why are you accepting financial aid for your poor from that same country? Spend some of your own country's money on your poor and invest what is left over where the hell you like.

Did you not read the link I gave about the so called aid?

The aid is basically a hoax.

To be frank, in India none is impressed with the aid that is channelled through favourite NGOs. Even Oxfam does not have a good reputation!

The money is used for the 'poor' to help cultivate/ or mine which finally goes to MNC, including the British firms.

We would love to spend the money on the poor and not buy weapons and weapons platform, but we have learnt from 1962 that when the chips are down, there is no friend around!

Who is giving China all the technology that they require to get their military to be shipshape? Not India for sure.

And China is not really 'peacefully rising'. She has risen peacefully because she has got the technology from the West including through illegal means.

Who allowed Pakistan to acquire nuclear technology?

So, that is why we have to keep up with the Joneses, even if it is hard on us!

Originally Posted by redshift

From what I know/ heard, apparently the Rafale is better at ground attack roles, compared to the EFT which seems to be more of an air superiority fighter.

Rafale is better at ground attack than Tranche 1 Typhoon. Hardly surprising as that was bought into service without clearing & integrating air to ground weapons as the pressing need was for a replacement AD aircraft and waiting for ATG integration would have delayed the in service date (even more). Tranche 2 & 3 (if we ever get 3) will be the all-singing, all-dancing multi-role aircraft it was always designed to be

Originally Posted by redshift

Apart from being a decision based on just tech or price, there has to be some political and strategic angle to this as well

Unfortunately, being Uncle Sam's lackey probably lost Britain this one. Say India did plump for the Typhoon and in the future decided to conduct a nuclear test, or there's some sort of Indo-Pak conflict. Next thing you know Uncle Sam's on the phone demanding Downing Street cut off all military cooperation. No way any British govt would have the spine to say no to the Septics. The French have no such qualms and undoubtedly gave the Indians all the necessary reassurances which swung the contest in their favour.

India learnt from sanctions placed on them in the 90s that what Uncle Sam giveth, he also taketh away. That mistrust was almost certainly why the two US contenders in the contest, the F16 and F18, were eliminated early on. As a rising power the Indians don't want fairweather friends so objectively it's unsurprising they plumped for the Rafale.....it sticks in the throat though, seeing the Frogs hit the jackpot with an inferior aircraft.

INDIA

Humanitarian aid: $54.7 million

India has recently moved from being a major recipient to one of the most important non-Western donors of humanitarian aid.

The government refused humanitarian aid in the aftermath of the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, and quickly provided aid to neighboring affected countries.

India says its main reasons for giving humanitarian aid are to help countries in distress and to foster friendly relations.

Most of its aid goes to strategically important neighbors.

The South Asian giant has developed a sophisticated disaster management system and helped countries in the region set up similar systems.

India emphasizes countries' sovereignty, giving most of its aid directly to the affected country's government, and stressing that it should not be linked to political objectives.

Indian officials have criticized international aid agencies, saying they have too many expensive Western staff and don't use funds efficiently.

It has channeled some aid multilaterally in recent years, either when the recipient country asked for this -- as Pakistan did after the 2010 floods -- or in conflict zones.

India is one of the Global Fund's largest recipients.
SOURCES: U.N. Financial Tracking Service, Overseas Development Institute, Global Public Policy Institute, U.N. Financial Tracking Service, Development Initiatives

I'm surprised they didn't just buy one, park it next to a blacksmiths shop and ask him to copy it.

Perhaps France would now like to take over our aid payments to the growing superpower India?

If they bought Rafale couldnt we have thrown in Andy Murray as well for free. Sorry crap joke. Mistook Rafale for Nidal the tennis player

Originally Posted by Andy71

Rafale is better at ground attack than Tranche 1 Typhoon. Hardly surprising as that was bought into service without clearing & integrating air to ground weapons as the pressing need was for a replacement AD aircraft and waiting for ATG integration would have delayed the in service date (even more). Tranche 2 & 3 (if we ever get 3) will be the all-singing, all-dancing multi-role aircraft it was always designed to be

It wasnt really designed as a multi-role aircraft - it was a fighter designed to get airborne fast to intercept the Ruskies. But I agree that the work done on T2 and T3 (i would imagine if we didnt buy T3 aircraft, we would continue to upgrade T1 and T2 to T3 standards and beyond, just not the same numbers) makes it an awesome all rounder.

Originally Posted by cernunnos

I'm surprised they didn't just buy one, park it next to a blacksmiths shop and ask him to copy it.

Perhaps France would now like to take over our aid payments to the growing superpower India?

First of all India is not China.

Second, as far as British aid goes, please read all about it in the link that I have given, if you could be good enough to do so.

Last, be good enough to know that we too have bought your aircraft Hawk with big money even though it was not the best; and we also bought your lemons - Westland helicopters to salvage you.

You talk of Indians being ungrateful, maybe you would remember the English saying - charity begins at home!

Be good enough to get your back off the seat and get a bit active and produce some real world beaters and then whine!

Just for my knowledge, could you enumerate any defence item that one could buy which is better than the products of other countries?

And India is no superpower. It is just a western hype to make them feel good and take on the Chinese, which in any case, they would!

Originally Posted by Rayc

First of all India is not China.

Second, as far as British aid goes, please read all about it in the link that I have given, if you could be good enough to do so.

Last, be good enough to know that we too have bought your aircraft even though it was not the best and we also bought your lemons Westland helicopter to salvage you.

You talk of Indians being ungrateful, maybe you would remember the British saying - charity begins at home!

Be good enough to get your lazybones a bit active and produce some real world beaters and then whine!

Look, you chose the wrong aircraft and of course we are going to throw shit around about a decision that we dont like. Add to that a little British vs French rivalry and the ante will be upped. Next, dont forget about a little country in Asia we British modernised and then handed back to the Injuns. Not to mention all the student doctors and engineers we qualify and send them back to India without giving anything back. And all the corners we created for you to build shops on (was probably your friends next door but I am generalising) and all the call centre jobs we sent to your country selflessly despite our high unemployment, stir into the mix the thanks we get from Indian taxi drivers who try to charge you for falling asleep in their taxis and you are going to get some perhaps more outlandish comments.

Originally Posted by cernunnos

I'm surprised they didn't just buy one, park it next to a blacksmiths shop and ask him to copy it.

Perhaps France would now like to take over our aid payments to the growing superpower India?

That's more like China though. India, unlike China does a pretty good job of respecting and enforcing IP and copyright stuff. Sure, there might be an odd case here and there, but in general it's pretty decent. And I am not talking about pirated DVDs and other low end things.

How do I know? The company I used to work for commissioned a pretty detailed study to find out the state of IP rights and their enforcement in the Indian and Chinese markets, trying to figure out which would be a better place for establishing a technical center.

They decided to go for India in the knowledge that their products and designs wouldn't be blatantly ripped-off, even though cost wise China was the better option. They just used the Chinese manufacturers for producing some parts and components.