Originally Posted by hackle

I follow most of that, but how would the division of the present UK result in "one less government" in membership of the EU?

You missed a bit, possibly my poor grammer:

..there would be one less government - UK and two additional governments England plus (whatever it chooses to call it's self) and Scotland but no enlargement.

Originally Posted by Auld-Yin

Would that not suggest that there is an element of fact in there then?

It does seem a bit strange that the ones saying England don't act badly are the English. Bit like a torturer saying that he did not harm anyone and he was only acting in his normal fashion.

How on Earth is England supposed to have 'tortured' Scotland? Generations of Scots have benefited from easy access to English capital and the opportunities afforded by partnership with a more powerful and richer entity with international ambition. By the same token, England has benefited hugely from access to Scottish talent, innovation and Creative energy which played a disproportionate part in the imperial story. Compare and contrast the relationship between the two countries prior to 1707 and post 1707.

Originally Posted by BaldBleep

It seems, having a Scot in charge, just ends in tears

Oh and it has been all sweetness when the English have been in charge

It would suggest to me AY, that Scots identity is closely bound to an opposition to England and the English, and Scots need that perceived antipathy to identify themselves as Scots.

Originally Posted by BuggerAll

'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

The Act of Union of 1707 applied to Wales by virtue of it's union with (or annexation by depending on your POV) England under the Laws in Wales Acts 1535 and 1542. Northern Ireland's constitutional settlement is with the United Kingdom.

I don't think the constitutional settlement of Northern Ireland is a can of worms I'd particularly want to open but I suspect that the majority in the province would wish to remain with England plus. Then again many unionists describe themselves as Ulster Scots and may prefer a closer union with Scotland than with England. Perhaps Northern Ireland may opt for condominium status post dissolution. Possibly an English/Scottish/Irish condominium in Northern Ireland would be a solution that would least displease most people.

Having the English and Irish involved in Northern Ireland is problematic enough - why would they want a third party to be involved, particularly one with its own sectarian issues?

Originally Posted by BaldBleep

Be more specific AY. Do you deny Scotland did well out of Empire and The UK?

You make it sound like a handout from the very nice English rather than the fact that the Empire was opened up by Scots, assisted ably by the Irish and in some way the Welsh. England just sent 'administrators'

Of course not, but just take a look at the Scottish monarchs who ruled GB & Ireland. Not a great track record.

Not quite AY. The fact you infer from my post, that I belittle Scotland and its influence within the Empire says more about your views than mine. Scottish influence is undeniable (despite Scots seemingly managing to blame England for ALL the Empires excesses), but you are very glib about English influence, without which there would have been no Empire at all.

Originally Posted by Fang_Farrier

As said before
Current situation
EU-Westminister-Holyrood
Independence
EU-Holyrood.

Does it not escape everybody's notice that the UK adheres to EU policy already, so how would an independent Scotland suddenly become a slave to the EU?

I don't think you'd become a slave to the EU unless your bureaucrats took the same line as the UK and not only accepted every bit of legislation but 'improved' upon it as well!

What is being postulated is that Scotland will have far less clout than a combined UK would and it might find it doesn't have the leverage it once had to secure deals except by dint of great diplomacy and quite a bit of trade-off.

Similarly if the Orkney Isles were to become independent from Scotland then they would have far less clout than Scotland (unless of course they broke away from Scotland and rejoined the UK).

So there is nothing described in the EU enlargement website to cover this wishfull thinking, that suddenly another country can be sitting at the table and have an active role in decision making (maybe nobody will notice??).

European Commission - Enlargement - The policy - Enlargement

Of course a simple EU Treaty change could cover it, so I guess its not really a problem........