ARmy Rumour SErvice

We need an imaginative solution to this problem.

As others have said, detention without trial is unacceptable. What if we get a loony left government at some point in the future. Half of Arrse would be banged up for crimes against socialism and I, for one, am too good looking to share a cell with Jarrod.

It could, just about, be argued that we are in a war so internment is justified. That would be a very big step to take and we'd need to implement widespread detention for it to be seen to be anything like reasonable. All those lads from Bradford who go on extended holidays to the Pakistan/Afghanistan border and come back with gunshot wounds and the kind of bruises you get from firing a RPG would have to be locked up too.

A better move might be to take a leaf from the Australians' book. They sent their asylum seekers, dangerous or not, to some God forsaken dot in the Pacific known as "Birdshit Island". All perfectly legal as you just have to provide refugees with a safe place to live. It doesn't have to be your place.

East Falkland isn't exactly over populated and, with thousands of squaddies next door, it has to be one of the safest places on earth. Similarly, the hellishly inbred descendants of the mutineers from HMS Bounty could do with a bit of colour in their gene pool among the "desolate beauty" of Pitcairn island.

Originally Posted by Ancient_Mariner

East Falkland isn't exactly over populated and, with thousands of squaddies next door, it has to be one of the safest places on earth. Similarly, the hellishly inbred descendants of the mutineers from HMS Bounty could do with a bit of colour in their gene pool among the "desolate beauty" of Pitcairn island.

Nah. Send him to some God forsaken windswept rock off of the north of Scotlandia where there is no human life apart from Puffins. k13eod can keep an eye on him. It's not like he is busy since he wrecked the Jag is it?

Originally Posted by TheIronDuke

He's done fuck all except gob off. And if that were a crime most of us would be banged up. Anyone remember 'the oxygen of publicity' argument? Yeah, so it didn't work too well, but you could see where it was coming from. Let the fat fucking weirdo walk the streets. Let him spout his hate on the internet. He is a gobshite tight-wrapped weirdo with dismal fashion sense, no sense of humour and an ugly bird. He wont win.

The Liebour government already created several speech crimes in their term of office, so I'm afraid you're a bit behind the times on that one.

If a person has committed or abetted terrorism, cleric or not, he can't be deported?

Under what point of law has he been acquitted?

It must be said that the British Law is very liberal.

Maybe these liberal laws will attract others to sit comfortably in UK and plan terror attacks elsewhere in the world since they know that even if they are caught, there will surely be some benign loophole which will let them go scot free!

Originally Posted by Rayc

If a person has committed or abetted terrorism, cleric or not, he can't be deported?

Under what point of law has he been acquitted?

It must be said that the British Law is very liberal.

Maybe these liberal laws will attract others to sit comfortably in UK and plan terror attacks elsewhere in the world since they know that even if they are caught, there will surely be some benign loophole which will let them go scot free!

Please read the Original Post again.

Originally Posted by eodmatt

Please read the Original Post again.

Abu Qatada, whose real name is Omar Othman, is one of the most influential Islamist clerics in Europe, supporting jihadist causes. British judges have described him as "truly dangerous"......

The Palestinian-Jordanian preacher has been convicted in his absence of involvement in two major terrorism plots in Jordan.

But he says that those convictions were based on evidence extracted by the torture of co-defendants and he would face similar treatment if returned. He originally fled to the UK in 1993 after being tortured twice.

The government signed a memorandum of understanding with Jordan as part of its efforts to expel him, one of a number of deals with foreign regimes which are designed to protect the human rights of anyone deported from the UK.

In the ruling, the Strasbourg court accepted that diplomatic assurances given by Jordan to the UK meant that the cleric would be protected from torture if he were returned.

But it added that the deportation had to be stopped because Abu Qatada was likely to face retrial in Jordan - and that torture had been used to gather the evidence against him...

"In the absence of any assurance by Jordan that the torture evidence would not be used against Mr Othman, the Court therefore concluded that his deportation to Jordan to be retried would give rise to a flagrant denial of justice in violation of [his right to a fair trial]".....


Shami Chakrabarti, Director of human rights campaign group Liberty, said: "Today's decisions from the European Court of Human Rights show considerable trust in the UK legal system but understandable concern about Jordanian law.

"The court found that torture and evidence obtained that way is widespread in that country. So it is clear that if Abu Qatada is to be tried for terrorism, this should happen in a British court without further delay."

To be on the safe side, I am extracting from the BBC report since what is written in Post #1 is not material to my comment that you have quoted. I was making an independent opinion/ query.

The issues are simple.

1.

Abu Qatada, whose real name is Omar Othman, is one of the most influential Islamist clerics in Europe, supporting jihadist causes. British judges have described him as "truly dangerous"......

I take it that the British Judges are convinced that this so called influential Islamist cleric support Jihad.


And, he is truly dangerous.


Therefore, my query is that a person supporting Jihad and who is dangerous, if acquitted and allowed to move free, can continue with his activities to the detriment of the safety of the people of not only the UK, but also the world.


I take it that even in the acclaimed bastion of democracy, the US, this type of a man would not be acquitted.

Since this cleric stands acquitted to continue his good work of supporting Jihad and being dangerous, which the Honourable Court admits, I come to the conclusion that Britain does have laudable liberal laws, where they have left the legacy of their Preventive Detention Laws to the colonies and yet, are exemplary to have real worthy laws that protects wholeheartedly the rights of the individual even at the expense of its society and at the expense of the society at large around the world.


2.

The Palestinian-Jordanian preacher has been convicted in his absence of involvement in two major terrorism plots in Jordan.

But he says that those convictions were based on evidence extracted by the torture of co-defendants and he would face similar treatment if returned. He originally fled to the UK in 1993 after being tortured twice.

The cleric says he had been tortured. Was he? Did the Court assume that just because Jordan was an Arab country, they would be resorting to torture and the like? Jordan by the by is ruled by an British trained King. Imagine that bloke being a cad and a foul smelling, thieving bazaar Arab! Maybe, the Court was advised by the MI 5 or MI 6 (I have no idea which section deals with what).Maybe they could have mentioned so not in so many words to appear fair and authentic. Or maybe the newspaper conveniently forgot to mention so. So, one could give the benefit of doubt.

The government signed a memorandum of understanding with Jordan as part of its efforts to expel him, one of a number of deals with foreign regimes which are designed to protect the human rights of anyone deported from the UK.

In the ruling, the Strasbourg court accepted that diplomatic assurances given by Jordan to the UK meant that the cleric would be protected from torture if he were returned.

But it added that the deportation had to be stopped because Abu Qatada was likely to face retrial in Jordan - and that torture had been used to gather the evidence against him...

"In the absence of any assurance by Jordan that the torture evidence would not be used against Mr Othman, the Court therefore concluded that his deportation to Jordan to be retried would give rise to a flagrant denial of justice in violation of [his right to a fair trial]".....

If a diplomatic assurance was not enough, what did the Court want? Is a diplomatic assurance not adequate?


What else could Jordan do, short of declaring Jordan as a vassal of the UK just to acquiesce to make the wig laden Judges realise that civilisation also exists beyond the shores of UK?


As I see it, the manner in which the liberal judgements are going in the UK, it is only making the world a dangerous place to live in.


However, it is good to be good people as you all are, but then you must also learn how to sift the wheat from the chaff. Life is not black and white.


Imagining and desiring in Goodness of Mankind is laudable and very Christian like, But if you do not live to enjoy the Christian Kindness that you have bestowed, then it would have been better to have heeded the Islamist preacher’s call and converted – at least 72 of the best would be awaiting your arrival in Heaven!!

Oh yes, you will say that the cleric and his activities will be monitored.

1984 has visited Britain?

Or is it like the good old NKVD days of USSR?

I mean no disrespect to you, the British Justice System or to anyone.

I am merely concerned about these terrorists and their agents (these fraudulent messengers of their Prophet) who are organising mayhem in my country as also creating conditions for a Second Partition and greater misery!

Islam is a great religion, I respect it. But it must find its space to coexist and not assume Hitler like tendencies of being über alles!

We are all God's Creation.

Let us live.

Let us live in PEACE!

Rayc - If I had not banned myself from the Indian/French thread I would be on there telling you this, not that you need me to tell you, you already know what pompous wind bag you are.

Stop writing like a Dickensian Lord.

I can imagine you are waving your hand around as you read your posts back to yourself, actually, I think you have a little 'slave' fluffer who inbetween fisting you, is sat typing your threads as you lord it up walking around your study, one hand behind your back and the other, waving around as you pretend to ''orchestrate' a response in the belief that your manner makes any difference to the fact the you have no friends and you are a top class cnut.

I look forward to your eloquent reply.

Stop wobbling your head.