ARmy Rumour SErvice

**History_Man** · 09-12-2011, 12:13

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

This reads like the Army's Chinook debacle.

We peg our hopes on a legacy platform, conceived in the 90s, that is already in service with the Austrian and Spanish armies.
Try to convince everyone it's new.

Moral - Never trust an equipment programme with 'Future' in the title, or a late PARA CGS who wants everything to fit into a C130!

CrapSpy, at the risk of being pedantic, I think that you mean the RAF's Chinook debacle. ASCOD/FRES SV will never see the light of day - when my local MP, the Sec of State,was speaking at RUSI yesterday, one of the few things that he can cut to save another billion quid will be FRES SV. The Warrior refit/refurb is as good as it is going to get for the time being. You are absolutely right, 16 AA Bde do not need the ability to carry 8x8 armoured vehicles in a C-130 or even an A400M - that is what sealift is for.

**CREATURE5334** · 09-12-2011, 12:34

I won't even pretent to understand how the powers that be arrange contracts. but it seems abit backwards.

where I work, if a customer places and order based on cost, if the project goes over this, the company picks up the difference.
If the project goes beyond the delivery date, the company can cop a fine. And its the same detail if the kit we sold/delivered commisioned phucks up.

So, where the hell to those that that are supposed to know better, find the muppets that agree these contracts?

It stikes me these are bot bright people, and should have been given a plastic bag to play with as a child.

**Boldnotold** · 09-12-2011, 12:44

When your customer places an order, does he or she know what they want?Military procurement is full of 'customers' who 'place orders' which are then changed several times throughout the life of the project. Each change adds to costs. To the helicopter example above can be added the Empty Aircraft Carrier disasters, and just about every IT Project you could name.Of course the suppliers/contractors involved are laughing all the way to the bank. They start off with an over high estimate and charge more and more as a succession of officers/leaders/consultants change the spec.

**Eric Shawn** · 09-12-2011, 12:52

Are any of us really surprised? I know I'm not. Shocked that they pissed away 1 billion pounds (say it slowly, it sounds even worse), but not surprised to hear that they've once again wasted our money.

**sunnoficarus** · 09-12-2011, 13:31

Originally Posted by CREATURE5334

I won't even pretent to understand how the powers that be arrange contracts. but it seems abit backwards.

where I work, if a customer places and order based on cost, if the project goes over this, the company picks up the difference.
If the project goes beyond the delivery date, the company can cop a fine. And its the same detail if the kit we sold/delivered commisioned phucks up.

So, where the hell to those that that are supposed to know better, find the muppets that agree these contracts?

It stikes me these are bot bright people, and should have been given a plastic bag to play with as a child.

Now imagine a situation where your buyer is also looking to leave your company and work for the vendor once the contract to buy has been signed…

Exhibit A: Snr MOD wonk who declares that a fixed price contract offer to sell us 72 Sikorsky UH-60's with training and support was not as good as the offer Wastelands were offering to sell us 62 Lynx Wildcats.
Once contract to buy 62 Wildcats is signed, leaves MOD and promptly turns up on the board of Wastelands and feigns surprise as the actual cost of Wildcat promptly rockets through the roof leaving us with teenie weenies that cost not far off what a Wokka costs, and in the case of the armies ones, will be armed to the teeth with a single GPMG.

**redshift** · 09-12-2011, 13:43

Originally Posted by Boldnotold

When your customer places an order, does he or she know what they want?Military procurement is full of 'customers' who 'place orders' which are then changed several times throughout the life of the project. Each change adds to costs. To the helicopter example above can be added the Empty Aircraft Carrier disasters, and just about every IT Project you could name.Of course the suppliers/contractors involved are laughing all the way to the bank. They start off with an over high estimate and charge more and more as a succession of officers/leaders/consultants change the spec.

Pentagon Wars - Bradley Fighting Vehicle Evolution - YouTube

**redshift** · 09-12-2011, 13:48

Originally Posted by CrapSpy

MRAV takes part. Trials aren't truthful.

You mean like this?

The Pentagon Wars 1998 - YouTube

**brighton hippy** · 09-12-2011, 13:54

if I got to say Mclaran and ask them to build me a super car for £2 million quid they will do so
if half way through building said super car I decide it needs integral flamethrowers and the ability to go off road.
its going to cost extra squillions

mod procurment

**Kromeriz** · 09-12-2011, 14:02

Originally Posted by redshift

You mean like this?

The Pentagon Wars 1998 - YouTube

Excellent. Thanks.

**Gassing_Badgers** · 09-12-2011, 14:12

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

And as always, the Officers behind this fiasco will sip their G&T's and shrug 'nothing to do with me old chap'.

Buy a COT LAV III like the Cannucks use perfectly well in the sandy places?

No! 'Unique UK operational needs', Unique operational requirements' and all the usual tripe is trotted out so we spunk gazzilions up the wall inventing LAV Mk Whatever that's going to be umpteen times better than LAV III …
and what do we end up with LAV Mk Nothing and a Billion quid out of pocket.
.

Wash, rinse, repeat - MOD 'procurement' in a nutshell.

To be honest though, Stryker - which is based on LAVIII - is getting an utter pounding in AFG, and the US Army is currently spunking said gazzilions on making them more survivable. If we had used them in Sangin the media would be full of it with more 'coffins on wheels' stories.

The point is - why would you need a wheeled 8x8 vehicle anyway, when we already have a nice golf bag containing Warrior, Mastiff et al?

Let's just face it: The Equipment Programme - for all three services - is just taking far too long, and delivering far too little.