ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by brighton hippy

an armoured truck was probably what was needed but we didn't even get that out of this programme.

warrior for high end war fighting
mastiff etc for UN peacekeeping tasks

I can't disagree with that.

With the exception of maintaining a niche armoured capability (probably Bde+), the light infantry model remains the most adaptable and flexible option there is.

Originally Posted by One_of_the_strange

One of the rocks that "network-centric" foundered on in the UK was the way that the grown-ups thought that it meant pasting IT onto what they did and otherwise not changing anything. The rather subversive reality is that IT can allow you to slim down HQs and information flow hierarchies drastically and that gives you the increased tempo. IT also allows you to mutate your information flows to meet changing situations. Well, unless you decide to don the hugely expensive strait jacket that is Bowman BCIP. I know, I know it does what it's supposed to - but unless your crystal ball is up and running the only certainty is that it won't be what you need next time when we do something different.

What we get instead are HQs that act as giant self-licking lollipops - full of very clever people, all focused on delivery, effect, facetime, career box ticking and so on but doing very little to drive events on the ground. But don't believe me, those chaps at QinetiQ have shelves stuffed full of reports that analyse the many deficiencies of current C2 from first principles by people who know what they're talking about. Or there's the staff study on Telic that Jim Storr edited.

IMHO the problem is that we have used "network-centric warfare” to centralise when we should have decentralised.

Basically we should push information down so that junior commanders can see where they fit in the big picture and act to achieve the commanders intent. What we are doing is pushing information up and orders down so that the senior commanders can meddle in things they should not and are distracted from what they should be doing.

I find Mobats' comment on information networks most interesting as it ties into key messages from SLA Marshall's "Men Against Fire" (disregarding dodgy statistical gathering methods) in that commander's on the front line were frequently unaware of what was happening to units to either side. A system that puts them in the picture would be highly useful (though a security nightmare)

The desire for a 3500-mile long bayonet from certain types of manager is predictable as well and is arguably why network-centric warfare was (is?) so enthusiastically taken up by factions in the MoD/army.

Highly capable units may be able to mass more force at a particular point for a breakthrough or decisive strike, they may require less logistics, but can they provide enough coverage so secure what they win?

Originally Posted by incendiarycutlery

I find Mobats' comment on information networks most interesting as it ties into key messages from SLA Marshall's "Men Against Fire" (disregarding dodgy statistical gathering methods) in that commander's on the front line were frequently unaware of what was happening to units to either side. A system that puts them in the picture would be highly useful (though a security nightmare)

The desire for a 3500-mile long bayonet from certain types of manager is predictable as well and is arguably why network-centric warfare was (is?) so enthusiastically taken up by factions in the MoD/army.

Highly capable units may be able to mass more force at a particular point for a breakthrough or decisive strike, they may require less logistics, but can they provide enough coverage so secure what they win?

the security nightmare aspect is rather simple to revolve you just stick a heart rate sensor the to individual and when it falls off the thing switches off, if you do this with the rfid style chest sticker then wires wont be a problem and nor will security, since to turn it back on the password will be needed so any slotted commander is unable to provide the correct key the device is effectivly useless

not that something so simple would ever be used there far more in favour of fingerprints and iris scans as biometric security even though the glaring falbility of dead people still have eye's /thumbs which cna be used

the idea of bio monitoring equipment that self purges when a person dies was also something in the offing as far back as the early 80's although only really became possible with tech advances in the real world post 2004 shame bowman is based on earlier crappier arcitecture, although i have no doubt its possible to improve it at another few billion in an upgrade programe who knows maybe next time a brand spanking new system is bought they will even make sure its able to operate when ionising radiation is present (gotta love fibre links eh especially when your radop parks on top of a natural radon vent ) now the networked idea is really good, and if its properly tied into the vehicles then remote driving would even be possible, much like the vaunted capability of AS90 and its capability of driving unmaned conducting a fire mission and returning to home base

But suppose that your commander is captured alive?

Or, as an alternate point of the annoyance scale, what happens if the commander knocks the sensor off? He has to go rummaging around under his armour to put it back on?

Originally Posted by incendiarycutlery

But suppose that your commander is captured alive?

Or, as an alternate point of the annoyance scale, what happens if the commander knocks the sensor off? He has to go rummaging around under his armour to put it back on?

I think it might be easier just to embed a chip in every soldier whilst at basic, GPS tracking, heart beat monitor and blood alcohol sensor. Job done, now all we need to do is find a contractor!

Originally Posted by incendiarycutlery

But suppose that your commander is captured alive?

Or, as an alternate point of the annoyance scale, what happens if the commander knocks the sensor off? He has to go rummaging around under his armour to put it back on?

he has an epurge button to press so the first is a no brainer and i already covered the second

Originally Posted by bokkatankie

I think it might be easier just to embed a chip in every soldier whilst at basic, GPS tracking, heart beat monitor and blood alcohol sensor. Job done, now all we need to do is find a contractor!

although not something i would personally suggest, it has already been tested to be somewhat inefective, since the implant can be fooled rather more easilly than one would wish to think possible providing it was say in the upper left or right arm, providing the decapitator was fast enough in attaching the croc clips the now free limb.... somewhere in south america by a large american bio tech company although it was the hand of the mayor that was removed by meat clever and a hand warmer + pacemaker was used ot fool the chip.

in built GPS would be passive (active would require a massive ammount of power and not last nong enough to be viable never mind being detectable by satelite or lookdown radio tracking equipment) so again pointless.

but yes and no on the chip, stick it in a mans head and it will beseen to easily put in a limb and it can be removed, insert it into a sub dermal layer near the heart would probably work, wiht the added benefits of only being a passive device and the tablet having a miliwatt RFID reader it could just be viable (since removal would never work)

and i guess a link seperator based on space of say 1 meter would always work since something strapped to your arm ala the bowman pda is never going ot be that far from your body when needed

the main idea that Light infantry Units should still be using soft skin trucks on operations is a bit of a joke