Thread: Where is the outrage regarding our pow treatment?

Originally Posted by No_Duff

You really are a cretin.

second that opinion.

While I'm truly saddened, as are all British Soldiers, that two Allied soldiers have been killed on Ops, I take what little comfort there is in the fact they died at the end of a rifle. There's so many more horrible ways this could have panned out as we all well know.

A Brit US pissing contest is embarrassing under the circumstances, some of you should be ashamed of yourselves, think how you would feel if that was you in the news and fellow soldiers were gobbing off like this for your family to come across and read on the internet, as they surely will, in the future? Get a grip.

Agreed Ord. My first concern was for these soldiers fate.

A thread asking for outrage on the basis of something we know nothing about (the exact circumstances of death, prisoner status, treatment of said by captors) belittles the death in war of these soldiers.

May they rest in peace.

Yes.
RIP to the fallen. I just hope it was quick for them.

Tam

Originally Posted by pp0470

As they never did hand him over and we are still searching for Bin Ladden, and 9yrs after our invasion of their country they are still a very potent fighting force who will, imo, probably regain control of Afghanistan after our withdrawal (retreat?), surely 'trying it on' is not accurate.

They have stood up to the coalition and, again imo, are winning. What objectives other than a feeble revenge (by killing thousands of innocents) have we achieved?

Your bias is showing old fellow.

Originally Posted by pp0470

Agreed Ord. My first concern was for these soldiers fate.

A thread asking for outrage on the basis of something we know nothing about (the exact circumstances of death, prisoner status, treatment of said by captors) belittles the death in war of these soldiers.

May they rest in peace.

You cannot even agree with Ord without adding this wholly gratuitous comment? We know enough that they are dead and it seems you could have left it right there instead of adding your snide and unnecessary comment.

If I had a ha'penny for every time someone has said something "intemperate" when one of OUR (and I include UK dead as well as ANYONE who is our ally) is killed or injured, especially under these circumstances (and yes I know we don't know all the facts and yes I know the sailors may have brought it on themselves etc. etc.) I would not be wasting my time on here but would be on an island in the Caribbean. Some of you fellows IMHO could use a lesson or two in basic humanity even on ARRSE. And then you accuse me as a Septic Marine of being too crass.

OK, we're outraged…

Happy now?

Originally Posted by Semper_Flexibilis

OK, we're outraged…

Happy now?

No, frankly I am not at all "happy"-just posted 2 more USMC KIA if you must know.

As you continue to seem to miss my point (I have no way of knowing whether it is intentional or just due to your discernment abilities), I will make it as clear as I can for you.

I have not advocated outrage at any point in this thread. My last post was rather to suggest again IMHO, that the poster may have been overstating the case in his headline and post but I think a little "slack" may be in order at least today in that regard. You of course can continue to do as you feel right ad proper--after all this is only ARRSE.

Originally Posted by pp0470

They have stood up to the coalition and, again imo, are winning. What objectives other than a feeble revenge (by killing thousands of innocents) have we achieved?

If nothing else we have at least given the Afghans another go at actually trying to sort out their country by removing the facist Taliban regime and yes I accept theres a good chance it may come to nought but at least it was attempted as opposed to letting such a vile murderous regime stay in power harbouring mass murderers. What pray tell, would have been your response to the murder of 67 British civilians as well as almost 3,000 American ones?

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

No, frankly I am not at all "happy"-just posted 2 more USMC KIA if you must know.

As you continue to seem to miss my point (I have no way of knowing whether it is intentional or just due to your discernment abilities), I will make it as clear as I can for you.

I have not advocated outrage at any point in this thread. My last post was rather to suggest again IMHO, that the poster may have been overstating the case in his headline and post but I think a little "slack" may be in order at least today in that regard. You of course can continue to do as you feel right ad proper--after all this is only ARRSE.

Think you win this contest Jumpin with your ability to piss further than anyone here.

Shall we let these soldiers, kia, rest in peace now (without the outrage)? Over to you for a last word.

All of our losses are painful to hear of,and I'm sure must be devastating for family and friends personally involved.Whatever the 'politics' of the situations in which they occur, the over riding emotions I feel are regret,that we should still find ourselves in such awful, wasteful clashes,and gratitude that we can still find men and women brave enough to try to do what they can to resolve the errors of others, who should know better ways of negotiating by now, without having to leave it to the military to pick up the bill. I hope all those who have lost there lives can rest in peace and I dearly hope that we can honour their sacrifice by doing all we can to ensure that war is always the absolute last option.

Originally Posted by DrunkenIrish

If nothing else we have at least given the Afghans another go at actually trying to sort out their country by removing the facist Taliban regime and yes I accept theres a good chance it may come to nought but at least it was attempted as opposed to letting such a vile murderous regime stay in power harbouring mass murderers. What pray tell, would have been your response to the murder of 67 British civilians as well as almost 3,000 American ones?

My response would not have been to start the blood baths and arms industry bonanza that Bush & Bliar have. It would not have been to ask the military to wage unwinnable wars. It would not have been to commited enough atrocities (bombing civilian shelters in Iraq or wedding parties in afghanistan) and crimes (extrodinary rendition, torture, etc) to recruit enough people to the enemies cause to keep us in a perpetual state of war

My response would have been:

1. Ask what is wrong with our foreign policy to cause people to hate us so much, and then go about correcting it.

2. Asked why the fcuk a mutli-billion dollar intelligence service didn't see it coming.

3. Discretely dispatch special forces / agents to execute those responsible, and then say nothing.

These actions would I believe have made our security more secure, not less secure, as it is now.
Not recruited the 1000's to Al Queda's cause, as current policy has.
Have been more likely to exact justice/revenge against Bin Ladden.
Not resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths.

Not resulted in the tragic, but not outragous, deaths of the 2 sailors.

Originally Posted by pp0470

My response would not have been to start the blood baths and arms industry bonanza that Bush & Bliar have. It would not have been to ask the military to wage unwinnable wars. It would not have been to commited enough atrocities (bombing civilian shelters in Iraq or wedding parties in afghanistan) and crimes (extrodinary rendition, torture, etc) to recruit enough people to the enemies cause to keep us in a perpetual state of war

My response would have been:



1. Ask what is wrong with our foreign policy to cause people to hate us so much, and then go about correcting it.

2. Asked why the fcuk a mutli-billion dollar intelligence service didn't see it coming.

3. Discretely dispatch special forces / agents to execute those responsible, and then say nothing.

These actions would I believe have made our security more secure, not less secure, as it is now.
Not recruited the 1000's to Al Queda's cause, as current policy has.
Have been more likely to exact justice/revenge against Bin Ladden.
Not resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths.

Not resulted in the tragic, but not outragous, deaths of the 2 sailors.

MY sole response is not to "win a pissing contest" (as I hope I outgrew that some years ago) but to humbly (and I mean that quite sincerely) suggest we try to use threads perhaps entitled " How I Would Have Fought (or not Fought) the (Insert the war, campaign, intervention, police action, invasion, oppression, colonialism, distraction from a sexual scandal, theft of oil, suppression of a people, jihad, genocide etc. etc.)." and then everyone who so chooses can rail forth or wax eloquent on their superior wisdom of the ages.

That way perhaps we will have sufficiently vented our respective spleens so as to be able to refrain (or at least temper a bit) our comments on threads like this when (and even if the original post may be misdirected or inartfully worded apparently due to the (IMHO understandable) emotion of the moment) we are discussing the death or injury of "our" (save for some on here I suppose who consider one or more of us the arch enemy of all humanity) brave, even if as perhaps here (and dare I say but for the Grace of God, luck, etc. or whoever you prefer, go I) misguided lads and lassies who are downrange doing their duty.

JJH out.

Fair points Jumpin.

Posts of concern/consolation for the 2 sailors was, I thought, in thread 'US Soldiers Captured by Taliban'. My post is on the first page if you wish to know my thoughts.

This thread, from title and on going discussions, did not appear to be a memorial page for the 2 guys, but rather a point of view discussion.

My heart goes out to these guys, and their families, but I am not about to put a Walt Disney ending on it to suit emotions. I would prefer to state the truth of these guys sacrifice, and the truth of why our politicians are sacrificing such young and promising lives.

This, imo, is not a time for sugar coatings. I know of sacrifices been made that I want to scream about, that I am very angry about, but now is not the time - there is a job to be done. We will remember them.

Originally Posted by pp0470

Fair points Jumpin.

Posts of concern/consolation for the 2 sailors was, I thought, in thread 'US Soldiers Captured by Taliban'. My post is on the first page if you wish to know my thoughts.

This thread, from title and on going discussions, did not appear to be a memorial page for the 2 guys, but rather a point of view discussion.

My heart goes out to these guys, and their families, but I am not about to put a Walt Disney ending on it to suit emotions. I would prefer to state the truth of these guys sacrifice, and the truth of why our politicians are sacrificing such young and promising lives.

This, imo, is not a time for sugar coatings. I know of sacrifices been made that I want to scream about, that I am very angry about, but now is not the time - there is a job to be done. We will remember them.

You are of course free to do as you wish-I was merely trying to suggest in the wake of such events we be a bit more discerning and (gasp) forgiving of a poster whose apparent (to me and some others at least) thrust was anger over the deaths under the peculiar and as of now ambiguous circumstances involved. I do not believe any of us have "won" or "lost" on the larger issues involved on the basis of this meager thread.