Originally Posted by IndianaDel

In actual fact, the R.A.F. (read the British Government), was FULLY committed to the bombing of Germany by 1937. This makes the British "retaliation" not so. The evidence for this point is a document called the "Western Air Plans" dated 1937.

Although the means were not at that time available to Britain, the intent was identical 'Morale' was one of the major "Targets" to be attacked (as was oil, transportation etc). There for, the British efforts against Germany in 1943-5 do not represent a clear change from pre-war intent.

What I think this demonstrates is, that Democracies are every bit as capable of contemplating "questionable ethics", as the "bad guys are". Of course the bad deeds of the enemy are always useful as a means to screen a nation's predication or pre-conflict war plans (as with the WAP37).

Of course, one must also understand the "law of war' is not a static "thing" but is always in flux, albeit sometimes very slowly. The kind of bombing as generally done in WWII against civilian population centers (ala' the then-popular Douhet/Mitchell/Trenchard/Harris/LeMay "bomb them into the stoneage" view) would no longer be considered lawful.

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Of course, one must also understand the "law of war' is not a static "thing" but is always in flux, albeit sometimes very slowly. The kind of bombing as generally done in WWII against civilian population centers (ala' the then-popular Douhet/Mitchell/Trenchard/Harris/LeMay "bomb them into the stoneage" view) would no longer be considered lawful.

Ostensibly due to the fact that it occured and the experience of it.

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Yes, just as everyone on here has been saying how your officials should dutifully report to our Congress purusant to their summonses.

Realy how many blue on blue in relasion to one oil spill and who owns over 40% of BP oh Its the septics any way not worth getting in to a peeing contest is it.

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Of course, one must also understand the "law of war' is not a static "thing" but is always in flux, albeit sometimes very slowly. The kind of bombing as generally done in WWII against civilian population centers (ala' the then-popular Douhet/Mitchell/Trenchard/Harris/LeMay "bomb them into the stoneage" view) would no longer be considered lawful.

True
Luckily I was a Historian when I wrote my thesis.
So "the ethic of bombing, or bombing of ethics" question was not one I had to address.

My point, however poorly made, was, Democracies (Britain in that particular case) have no trouble taking their gloves off when required.
Perhaps the current reactions in Britain/ USA and their differences, may have something to do with the impact of 9/11 on the respective populaces and their political leadership.

Originally Posted by longlivethequeen

Realy how many blue on blue in relasion to one oil spill and who owns over 40% of BP oh Its the septics any way not worth getting in to a peeing contest is it.

You are missing the point old fellow.

Originally Posted by rampant

Ostensibly due to the fact that it occured and the experience of it.

Much of the law of war post WWII was a result of the horrors of that war (indeed much of the history of the LOW demonstrates this phenomenon) such as the 1949 Geneva Conventions. In terms of the bombing aspects, much of the awareness of this came through study of the "Strategic Bombing Surveys" that caused quite a stir in that they debunked much of the "conventional wisdom" of the day (largely held by and fostered by our crab friends). The studies showed just how relatively "ineffective" much of the bombing was and the corollary of course that much of the destruction was either "unnecessary" or "misguided" (civilian targets etc.).

RIP. My sincere condolenses.

It is not clear can we speak about war crimes, executions of POWs in this case.

2nd US Navy sailor's body recovered in Afghanistan - Yahoo! News

Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid told The Associated Press in Kabul on Thursday that two days ago the Taliban left the "body of a dead American soldier for the U.S. forces" to recover. The Taliban said McNeley was killed in a firefight and insurgents had captured Newlove. Mujahid offered no explanation for Newlove's death.
...
Newlove was shot once in the head and twice in the torso, according to Logar provincial spokesman Din Mohammad Darwesh. He speculated Newlove may have been wounded in a shootout with the Taliban and died because there was no medical care available in the rugged mountain area.

So allegedly one of the fallen was killed in a combat and another badly wounded and later died.

The Americans threw away the rulebook from the very first day of this war. To list the resultant US war crimes would be as tedious as it is unnecessary. We've already seen the videos, the photos, the leaked documents. All that needs to be noted is how successful these tactics have been. America went after a handful of terrorists and after nine years, millions of lives ruined and the total waste of a trillion dollars they've managed to become more hated around the world than the Third Reich. The fact that an otherwise intelligent nation can do these things and still expect sympathy for not being liked is incomprehensible.

What is it with these people: do they have the memory of a goldfish and a shark's empathy with its prey?

Would they send a Republican chamber of commerce delegation to Cambodia to say "Hi, remember us, we're the guys who dropped more bombs on your neutral little country than we did on all our enemies in World War II? Nice to meet you. Sorry about the farmers who keep getting blown up in the paddi fields from our old ordnance, but it was all for your own good."

Or then wander into Vietnam with some more friendly chat: "Sorry we killed millions of your people in that little war. Bad news about how your babies are still being born deformed because of all that agent orange we dropped here, but you should see the disaster we've got in the Gulf of Mexico. It would break your little Gook hearts to see the suffering our poor people are having to endure from all that oily water."

Well, yes, they probably would. The only bad things in their world that matter are the the bad things that happen to Americans. What the Americans do to other people is just tough sh*t.

As anybody ever heard of one single voice in the US apologising to the people of Iraq for smashing their country up for fun and profit? To even ask the question is to recognise the stupidity of it. American minds just don't work that way. For them, the human race consists of US citizens: nobody else matters.

Which is why they're really the aliens, the weirdos, the crazies, the lunatics, the born outsiders. Gibbering God bothers with some of the best minds of the 18th century, a system of weights and measures long ago discarded by the rest of the world, wrapped up with issues like abortion that belong in history books everywhere else, a government dominated by the biggest collection of senile old dinosaurs ever assembled in one place since Jurassic Park and a military with a reverse Midas touch -- it swallows a river of gold every day and spits out useless lead.

A bastard who boasts of being a bastard is at least understandable. A bastard who kicks defenceless victims to death while calling them evil is touched in the head. As far as I'm concerned, anyway.

The one thing I can guarantee is that whoever shot those sailors, and for whatever reason, the man who pulled the trigger had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. The survivors of that conspiracy who are still on the loose could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. The CIA itself has said there probably no more than a hundred al-Qaida fighters left in all of Afghanistan. The reason those Americans were killed is because America kills wherever it likes and kills as many as it likes without mercy, decency, honour or sense. That's how they've morphed a gang of cheapskate militants into a million enemies eager to kill anybody in western uniform.

And the worst of it is that my government works with you, supports you and ultimately makes us as guilty as you are. So if you want outrage, I've got plenty of it.

I'm outraged that my grandchildren are likely to end up fighting the two hundred million Muslims who live just on the other side of Australia's northern horizon because of this f**king stupid war without end.

Originally Posted by littlejim

The Americans threw away the rulebook from the very first day of this war. To list the resultant US war crimes would be as tedious as it is unnecessary. We've already seen the videos, the photos, the leaked documents. All that needs to be noted is how successful these tactics have been. America went after a handful of terrorists and after nine years, millions of lives ruined and the total waste of a trillion dollars they've managed to become more hated around the world than the Third Reich. The fact that an otherwise intelligent nation can do these things and still expect sympathy for not being liked is incomprehensible.

What is it with these people: do they have the memory of a goldfish and a shark's empathy with its prey?

Would they send a Republican chamber of commerce delegation to Cambodia to say "Hi, remember us, we're the guys who dropped more bombs on your neutral little country than we did on all our enemies in World War II? Nice to meet you. Sorry about the farmers who keep getting blown up in the paddi fields from our old ordnance, but it was all for your own good."

Or then wander into Vietnam with some more friendly chat: "Sorry we killed millions of your people in that little war. Bad news about how your babies are still being born deformed because of all that agent orange we dropped here, but you should see the disaster we've got in the Gulf of Mexico. It would break your little Gook hearts to see the suffering our poor people are having to endure from all that oily water."

Well, yes, they probably would. The only bad things in their world that matter are the the bad things that happen to Americans. What the Americans do to other people is just tough sh*t.

As anybody ever heard of one single voice in the US apologising to the people of Iraq for smashing their country up for fun and profit? To even ask the question is to recognise the stupidity of it. American minds just don't work that way. For them, the human race consists of US citizens: nobody else matters.

Which is why they're really the aliens, the weirdos, the crazies, the lunatics, the born outsiders. Gibbering God bothers with some of the best minds of the 18th century, a system of weights and measures long ago discarded by the rest of the world, wrapped up with issues like abortion that belong in history books everywhere else, a government dominated by the biggest collection of senile old dinosaurs ever assembled in one place since Jurassic Park and a military with a reverse Midas touch -- it swallows a river of gold every day and spits out useless lead.

A bastard who boasts of being a bastard is at least understandable. A bastard who kicks defenceless victims to death while calling them evil is touched in the head. As far as I'm concerned, anyway.

The one thing I can guarantee is that whoever shot those sailors, and for whatever reason, the man who pulled the trigger had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. The survivors of that conspiracy who are still on the loose could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. The CIA itself has said there probably no more than a hundred al-Qaida fighters left in all of Afghanistan. The reason those Americans were killed is because America kills wherever it likes and kills as many as it likes without mercy, decency, honour or sense. That's how they've morphed a gang of cheapskate militants into a million enemies eager to kill anybody in western uniform.

And the worst of it is that my government works with you, supports you and ultimately makes us as guilty as you are. So if you want outrage, I've got plenty of it.

I'm outraged that my grandchildren are likely to end up fighting the two hundred million Muslims who live just on the other side of Australia's northern horizon because of this f**king stupid war without end.

Sorry, old chap - but with your very first sentence you reveal yourself to be utterly ignorant of what is now, and has been, happening in Afghanistan. Anything after that will undoubtedly be equally nonsensical.

Originally Posted by littlejim

The Americans threw away the rulebook from the very first day of this war. To list the resultant US war crimes would be as tedious as it is unnecessary. We've already seen the videos, the photos, the leaked documents. All that needs to be noted is how successful these tactics have been. America went after a handful of terrorists and after nine years, millions of lives ruined and the total waste of a trillion dollars they've managed to become more hated around the world than the Third Reich. The fact that an otherwise intelligent nation can do these things and still expect sympathy for not being liked is incomprehensible.

What is it with these people: do they have the memory of a goldfish and a shark's empathy with its prey?

Would they send a Republican chamber of commerce delegation to Cambodia to say "Hi, remember us, we're the guys who dropped more bombs on your neutral little country than we did on all our enemies in World War II? Nice to meet you. Sorry about the farmers who keep getting blown up in the paddi fields from our old ordnance, but it was all for your own good."

Or then wander into Vietnam with some more friendly chat: "Sorry we killed millions of your people in that little war. Bad news about how your babies are still being born deformed because of all that agent orange we dropped here, but you should see the disaster we've got in the Gulf of Mexico. It would break your little Gook hearts to see the suffering our poor people are having to endure from all that oily water."

Well, yes, they probably would. The only bad things in their world that matter are the the bad things that happen to Americans. What the Americans do to other people is just tough sh*t.

As anybody ever heard of one single voice in the US apologising to the people of Iraq for smashing their country up for fun and profit? To even ask the question is to recognise the stupidity of it. American minds just don't work that way. For them, the human race consists of US citizens: nobody else matters.

Which is why they're really the aliens, the weirdos, the crazies, the lunatics, the born outsiders. Gibbering God bothers with some of the best minds of the 18th century, a system of weights and measures long ago discarded by the rest of the world, wrapped up with issues like abortion that belong in history books everywhere else, a government dominated by the biggest collection of senile old dinosaurs ever assembled in one place since Jurassic Park and a military with a reverse Midas touch -- it swallows a river of gold every day and spits out useless lead.

A bastard who boasts of being a bastard is at least understandable. A bastard who kicks defenceless victims to death while calling them evil is touched in the head. As far as I'm concerned, anyway.

The one thing I can guarantee is that whoever shot those sailors, and for whatever reason, the man who pulled the trigger had nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. The survivors of that conspiracy who are still on the loose could probably be counted on the fingers of one hand. The CIA itself has said there probably no more than a hundred al-Qaida fighters left in all of Afghanistan. The reason those Americans were killed is because America kills wherever it likes and kills as many as it likes without mercy, decency, honour or sense. That's how they've morphed a gang of cheapskate militants into a million enemies eager to kill anybody in western uniform.

And the worst of it is that my government works with you, supports you and ultimately makes us as guilty as you are. So if you want outrage, I've got plenty of it.

I'm outraged that my grandchildren are likely to end up fighting the two hundred million Muslims who live just on the other side of Australia's northern horizon because of this f**king stupid war without end.

Yes, quite, but what's your point?