The cost and consequences of both Iraq and Afghanistan will scar and incapacitate Military strategies and tactics for the foreseeable future.It is seems unlikely that the U.K. will ever be able to act independently again.The current scrapping and deferment of major and much needed updates and equipment is creating significant gaps in our ability to project military force or even defend ourselves without the cooperation of either the U.S. or the E.U.,and there would seem to be more cuts to come whoever gets into power next time

Originally Posted by Bazzinho1977

Again, the tories, like every government in recent memory will talk about standing up for the armed forces and then shaft them and reduce their size anyway.

I would trust them about as much as an alleyway abortionist.

I take it you have also stuck Labour and the other lot in the alleyway with the abortionist? For the last time there is no money Gordon and his mates have spent it all so we are all stuffed, and that goes for HMF.

As posted earlier, it does not matter what your military aspirations are if you cannot finance it you have no choice but to relegate yourself from the Premiership.
I have no idea how you 'class' a first or second division military but for too long we have punched above our weight. So the question is what has 'dining at the top-table' brought the country militarily, financially or politically over the last 10 or 20 years?

Originally Posted by pimpernel

Originally Posted by Bazzinho1977

Again, the tories, like every government in recent memory will talk about standing up for the armed forces and then shaft them and reduce their size anyway.

I would trust them about as much as an alleyway abortionist.

I take it you have also stuck Labour and the other lot in the alleyway with the abortionist? For the last time there is no money Gordon and his mates have spent it all so we are all stuffed, and that goes for HMF.

pimp - I barely trust my own father - so I regard all politicians of whatever political hue as little more than vampires at the moment. Hence my use of the term "government" above.

Originally Posted by Bazzinho1977

Originally Posted by pimpernel

Originally Posted by Bazzinho1977

Again, the tories, like every government in recent memory will talk about standing up for the armed forces and then shaft them and reduce their size anyway.

I would trust them about as much as an alleyway abortionist.

I take it you have also stuck Labour and the other lot in the alleyway with the abortionist? For the last time there is no money Gordon and his mates have spent it all so we are all stuffed, and that goes for HMF.

pimp - I barely trust my own father - so I regard all politicians of whatever political hue as little more than vampires at the moment. Hence my use of the term "government" above.

Cheers baz, rather tend to agree.

Originally Posted by meridian

I think most of us have been critical of Liam Fox, his heart might be in the right place but his dribbling on defence issues of late have led me to think the Tory approach to defence will be pretty much the same as Labour, that of managing decline.

I think you are being overly generous towards the Conservatives and quite inaccurate regarding New Labour.

Did you mean MISmanaging decline?

Originally Posted by meridian

is this a bit of clear blue water opening up between the parties or do you think his fine words won't be matched with pound notes?

Finance: No difference between the two. The economy is fooked and defence will be an easy target for cuts.

Policy: I doubt the Conservatives would have done little different to New Labour since 2001. The only difference being the narrative on why we're going into Iraq and so on. As to the future, I don't think either will have a true grip on our own destiny and policy will be determined in other capitals.

Originally Posted by pimpernel

Originally Posted by Bazzinho1977

Originally Posted by pimpernel

Originally Posted by Bazzinho1977

Again, the tories, like every government in recent memory will talk about standing up for the armed forces and then shaft them and reduce their size anyway.

I would trust them about as much as an alleyway abortionist.

I take it you have also stuck Labour and the other lot in the alleyway with the abortionist? For the last time there is no money Gordon and his mates have spent it all so we are all stuffed, and that goes for HMF.

pimp - I barely trust my own father - so I regard all politicians of whatever political hue as little more than vampires at the moment. Hence my use of the term "government" above.

Cheers baz, rather tend to agree.

Thats a bit harsh - you don't even know my father....

Originally Posted by kangorrilapig

The cost and consequences of both Iraq and Afghanistan will scar and incapacitate Military strategies and tactics for the foreseeable future.It is seems unlikely that the U.K. will ever be able to act independently again.

In a political or hardware sense?

I don't agree with your statement at all.

Originally Posted by Fronty

He might think that himself, but all the virtue and good intentions in the world might not be salvageable when the defence budget will only allow for a few scouts armed with catapults.

I wish him luck if the Tories get in... He'll need it.

I think Liam fox's appointment will be an initial litmus test of the new Govt's ideas on defense. If cameron makes him Secretary of State for Defense then it will show that the Tories are serious about it and want a man with a lot of experience in the shadow role to sort out the issues. If, on the other hand, they give Fox another appointment and give the MOD to a different MP then it will provide a clear indication that all three services should await incoming.

Edited to add: His speech still indicates that they're going to cut the budget though