Originally Posted by DavidBOC

The latest reports on the news on my side (septic) of the pond are that the bomber was using PETN (pentaerythritol tetranitrate) along with a glycol compound, possibly EGDN (ethylene glycol dinitrate). I seem to recall that PETN is about 50-60% more effective than TNT. Not sure about EGDN. He had a syringe as part of his equipmet so he may have tried to mix the liquid EGDN with solid/powder PETN in flight.

It appears that he packed the materials in a condom or condoms and hid them in his underwear. After the actions of Richard Reid, the British shoe bomber, they started having us remove our shoes at screening. One is forced to wonder what changes in screening this will bring. We may face interesting patdowns.

Both electronic sniffers and sniffer dogs are programmed/trained for nitrate explosives although I think the precise list of explosives is classified. One would have presume that they would have picked up on the scent if they were used.

One problem in the US is that the TSA is suposed to avoid ethnic profiling as that would be racist. They randomly pick people from the line for extra screening. On one recent trip I saw them pick out an elderly Irish grannie traveling with her daughter and two small children. They also picked out one scandanavian boy scout out of a troop of a dozen scouts traveling together. Oddly I seem to have missed the reports about the risk of elderly grannies and boy scouts as bombers.

Well, another Brit export to the USA...political correctness,...the Yanks have perfected this odious practise. I have read reports where Muslims have, on purpose, attempted to scare passengers in the gate areas by praying aloud, running about on the airplane, etc, yet,...the TSA and the airlines refuse to take action as the Muslims immediately contact their lawyers and sue for compensation...Racial Profiling...recently the Times listed many of the airplane hijack attacks going back to 1970...all done by middle eastern muslims...not one Scandinavian, Irishman, or Mexican in the lot. No Protestants, no Jews...just middle eastern Muslims...

Originally Posted by zazabell_012

Haven't we been here before? Red lights flashing, alarm bells sounding, yet nothing was done about this guy until it was nearly too late.

Well, that all depends on how many loons we have got running about who tick all the boxes for potential AQ recruit (sad git, literal mind, easily led, basically a no-hoper, religious affinities, local chapters of "Swivel-eyed Islamic Loons'R'Us" nearby, general big mouth and tendency to spout off about jihad) yet are basically sad, cowardly unreliable gits whom no potential terrorist recruiter would trust to do anything with.

Therein lies the problem: it is dead easy to turn up a list of very likely candidates for a quick one-way trip down the internment camp for the public good, and very difficult to differentiate between sad inbred loudmouth and sad, inbred loudmouth who can be used as suicide bomber without interviewing the subjects at length and quite likely whipping up resentment about Big Brother watching everyone with quite a lot of the little morons.

Originally Posted by Doc1701

Originally Posted by zazabell_012

Haven't we been here before? Red lights flashing, alarm bells sounding, yet nothing was done about this guy until it was nearly too late.

Well, that all depends on how many loons we have got running about who tick all the boxes for potential AQ recruit (sad git, literal mind, easily led, basically a no-hoper, religious affinities, local chapters of "Swivel-eyed Islamic Loons'R'Us" nearby, general big mouth and tendency to spout off about jihad) yet are basically sad, cowardly unreliable gits whom no potential terrorist recruiter would trust to do anything with.

Therein lies the problem: it is dead easy to turn up a list of very likely candidates for a quick one-way trip down the internment camp for the public good, and very difficult to differentiate between sad inbred loudmouth and sad, inbred loudmouth who can be used as suicide bomber without interviewing the subjects at length and quite likely whipping up resentment about Big Brother watching everyone with quite a lot of the little morons.

Actualy zazabell is correct. Not sure what profiling techniques NW employ, certainly wouldn't want to have an open discussion about them here. But the profile of this terrorist bomber should have rung so many bells he should not have gotten past check-in. It is hugely worrying that he got on board and came so close to bringing this airliner down. I would expect resignations because this guy was a slam dunk muslim bomber.

Somewhat annoyed to see Alan Johnson making a plug for how vital are e-Borders and the new biometric visa. There's been nothing in this case to suggest a false ID was used in this case, was there? This guy had a valid US visa in his own name.

Originally Posted by DavidBOC

One problem in the US is that the TSA is suposed to avoid ethnic profiling as that would be racist. They randomly pick people from the line for extra screening. On one recent trip I saw them pick out an elderly Irish grannie traveling with her daughter and two small children. They also picked out one scandanavian boy scout out of a troop of a dozen scouts traveling together. Oddly I seem to have missed the reports about the risk of elderly grannies and boy scouts as bombers.

Hence another reason why Muslims will ultimately win in the end. We are scared of upsetting them.

Originally Posted by DavidBOC

Oddly I seem to have missed the reports about the risk of elderly grannies and boy scouts as bombers.

Problem with 'racial' profiling is that it is flawed. You will find that starting in the 80's terrorists managed to put bombs in suitcases of unsuspecting/naive 'whites'. These rather complicated operations were followed by active and successful recruitment of 'white' converts by HisAllah etc.
So, racial profiling would not have picked up on the 'pregnant Irish woman' nor the 'German convert'.
Having said this, as it is at the moment, assorted shoe or leg bombers might have thought twice if they would have known that they will be posed some probing questions by clued up staff at the airport.
Oh, all this of course does not work with minimum income flashlight cops...

Originally Posted by nigegilb

Originally Posted by Doc1701

Originally Posted by zazabell_012

Haven't we been here before? Red lights flashing, alarm bells sounding, yet nothing was done about this guy until it was nearly too late.

Well, that all depends on how many loons we have got running about who tick all the boxes for potential AQ recruit (sad git, literal mind, easily led, basically a no-hoper, religious affinities, local chapters of "Swivel-eyed Islamic Loons'R'Us" nearby, general big mouth and tendency to spout off about jihad) yet are basically sad, cowardly unreliable gits whom no potential terrorist recruiter would trust to do anything with.

Therein lies the problem: it is dead easy to turn up a list of very likely candidates for a quick one-way trip down the internment camp for the public good, and very difficult to differentiate between sad inbred loudmouth and sad, inbred loudmouth who can be used as suicide bomber without interviewing the subjects at length and quite likely whipping up resentment about Big Brother watching everyone with quite a lot of the little morons.

Actualy zazabell is correct. Not sure what profiling techniques NW employ, certainly wouldn't want to have an open discussion about them here. But the profile of this terrorist bomber should have rung so many bells he should not have gotten past check-in. It is hugely worrying that he got on board and came so close to bringing this airliner down. I would expect resignations because this guy was a slam dunk muslim bomber.

There are systems in place, and thankfully most do not revolve around 'profiling' which in my opinion is a waste of time.

The question still remains though as to why this guy was not taken in at immigration control. If this is a fault of personnel, well they must be placed on notice. If, as I suspect the guy was not flagged at a higher level, surely a cleanout of dead wood is due.

It only takes 1 foul up to cost hundreds their lives.

There should be muslim only flights in gliders towed by the airlines, failing that strict profiling, at least that way most people can catch their flights with minimum fuss.

The idea that all should be searched is stupid, it's black/brown muslims doing the bombing, so they should be the ones subject to the most stringent checks.

Why would he be taken in at immigration in Lagos or in transit in Schipol? He'd got a valid US visa (and according to a report I can't find again) had complied with APIS.

Originally Posted by vampangua

Why would he be taken in at immigration in Lagos or in transit in Schipol? He'd got a valid US visa (and according to a report I can't find again) had complied with APIS.

Regardless of your passport or visa status you can be flagged. Also, just coz a person has a valid visa it still does not guarantee them entry to a country. Visas are cancelled for all sorts of reasons, it only takes the senior Immi officer at the airport to do so and the person is sent packing on the next return flight. If they are flagged, or there are suspicions they're detained.