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Originally Posted by ashie

Originally Posted by FORMER_FYRDMAN

Originally Posted by LISpace

Originally Posted by PartTimePongo

I agree Jagman. While I find reported aspects of the late Dr. Kelly's demise disturbing, I am hard-pressed to lay the blame for any malice at the door of the British Government. That would imply a decision taken at Cabinet level to rid themselves of this turbulent scientist.

However, I do feel there should be a re-investigation, especially after the farce that was Hutton, if only to bring closure to this unfortunate man's family at last.

My bold. His wife is content with the suicide verdict. This subsequent trouble making by those with an agenda is not bringing closure; far from it. It is unnecessarily re-opening old wounds. I can't help thinking of parallels between this and the pain the Princes would have suffered as a result of the 'Diana was murdered' nutters and the way in which her death was exploited.

Not the same at all. Diana's death was gone over with a fine tooth comb by at least one very professional enquiry which tackled the outstanding questions directly, Hutton was demonstrably a dog's breakfast.

And The Express (and others) continued to make a fool of itself for years by refusing to accept the bleedin' obvious. The same is true of the conspiracy theorists on the sad suicide of David Kelly.

There is more to be upset with Hutton about than simply the details relating directly to Kelly.

Originally Posted by FORMER_FYRDMAN

Originally Posted by ashie

Originally Posted by FORMER_FYRDMAN

Originally Posted by LISpace

Originally Posted by PartTimePongo

I agree Jagman. While I find reported aspects of the late Dr. Kelly's demise disturbing, I am hard-pressed to lay the blame for any malice at the door of the British Government. That would imply a decision taken at Cabinet level to rid themselves of this turbulent scientist.

However, I do feel there should be a re-investigation, especially after the farce that was Hutton, if only to bring closure to this unfortunate man's family at last.

My bold. His wife is content with the suicide verdict. This subsequent trouble making by those with an agenda is not bringing closure; far from it. It is unnecessarily re-opening old wounds. I can't help thinking of parallels between this and the pain the Princes would have suffered as a result of the 'Diana was murdered' nutters and the way in which her death was exploited.

Not the same at all. Diana's death was gone over with a fine tooth comb by at least one very professional enquiry which tackled the outstanding questions directly, Hutton was demonstrably a dog's breakfast.

And The Express (and others) continued to make a fool of itself for years by refusing to accept the bleedin' obvious. The same is true of the conspiracy theorists on the sad suicide of David Kelly.

There is more to be upset with Hutton about than simply the details relating directly to Kelly.

You may have a point.

Weather you believe Kelly was killed by UK agencies or not; If Blair and or Campbell wanted someone wanted "silenced" has any one considered that they could have called in a favour from someone who does (or has)go(ne) about bumping off those who piss them off? ie the Yanks?

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that someone in the Blair Clique asked George W to do them a favour as they both were about to go to war on very dodgy ground.....There is also the possibility that a foreign contractor would have been called in just in case the real truth got out and Blair/Campbell were held to account, God forbid....

Just for the record I don't know what happened but i am sure that the timing of Kelly's death was mighty convenient to the government and smacks of revenge if nothing else

G4Eddie

"Tin Foil Hats" "Get yer Tin Foil Hats whilst stocks last!"

[Q]1. He was a Baha'i, suicide is contrary to the beliefs of that religion
[/Q]

All the Abrahamic derived religions have strictures on self-murder. That does not stop adherents commiting suicide. Indeed there are lots of other restrictions and exhortations that are ignored. There are adulterous Jews, thieving Christians and uncharitable Muslims. It is also worth noting that in the Bahai faith the suicide victim will "be immersed in the ocean of pardon and forgiveness and will become the recipient of bounty and favour". Given that Kelly was under tremendous public pressure, probably depressed and with a complicated private life, is there any reason to think that he would not have been at risk of suicide?

[Q]2. The two attending paramedics clearly stated that there was not enough blood for him to have bled to death [/Q]

Compared to what? Even experienced paramedics may be used to seeing blood loss on paper or cloth sheets, as well as hard and impermeable surfaces like concrete, tarmac, etc. Blood on grass, soil and leaf mulch behaves very differently. Pour a litre of water out of a narrow rimmed container onto soil and then your kitchen work surface.

Besides this, Kelly was a middle aged man with heart disease. This involves a condition called arteriosclerosis where the larger arteries become hardened and lose their elasticity. Moderate blood loss can have dramatic consequences in such a condition as the circulatory system struggles to compensate for the falling blood pressure that a younger fitter person could deal with.

[Q] 3. There was some question at the time about the body being moved but thats from memory and would have to search for a source
[/Q]

Indeed there was. This seems to be based on the lack of blood (see above) and the fact that he 'could'nt' have committed suicide in the position that he was found (flat on his back with his head propped against a tree). I'll leave it to others to speculate on whether there's a good position in which to commit suicide. The obvious explanation is that he slid down into the position in which he was found as he lost consciousness. Therefore the body moved, but was not 'moved'.

[Q] 4. Despite the empty packaging he had not consumed sufficient medication to kill him
[/Q]

What exactly does this mean? If the packaging was empty, was it in his gut or perhaps his bloodstream? Was it given as the cause of death? Co-proxamol is a pretty dangerous drug. If anyone pitched up claiming to have taken ten or more, they would be in hospitalon cardiac and respiratory monitoring. Especially if they had heart disease.

[Q]5. The knife used to cut his wrist had no fingerprints, no gloves present at the scene [/Q]

If this is accurate (and I haven't seen this claim before) then the crack squad of government assassins who carried out this hit should be made redundant forthwith. They clearly are so incompetent that they can't even organise a convincing looking suicide.

[Q] 6. Medical opion says cutting the Ulnar Artery will not result in bleeding out.[/Q]

Some medical opinion says yes, some no. Get three doctors in a room to discuss a difficult case and you'll get four different diagnoses. Besides which, look at the annual UK mortality statistics. Severing of the ulnar artery is a very uncommon cause of death but it is there. See my above about the contribution that other health problems, not to mention dangerous drugs, might make.

[Q] 7. Multiple coroners and doctors assert the above[/Q]

And lots don't. Either because it makes the story less newsworthy or doesn't reinforce the listeners own preconceptions is why we hear a lot less from them.

[Q] 8. Dr Kelly predicted his own death in the woods as the result of the shenanigans at the time[/Q]

What did he actually say? Were the assassins so brazen that they tipped him off? Or was he merely doing what many people who commit suicide do, and drop hints to friends and relatives that only make sense in hindsight.

My real problem with this is that either the British State, with all the resources at its disposal, managed a hamfisted bungling wet job that left more holes in its cover story than a tea strainer, or poor David Kelly was badly managed and let down at a time when he could least deal with it. Neither reflects well on the UK government, but the latter seems far more likely to me.

Originally Posted by bobthedog

If the death of Dr David Kelly had been correctly investigated, and resulted in a proper coroner's inquest maybe there would have been less room for people to question his death. Hutton's report was a total whitewash, like all the other inquiries that this government has undertaken, remember the 3 investigations into the handling of foot and mouth?

This government doesn't do inquiries very well, and certainly doesn't like anyone poking around investigating their actions.

I agree that the horlicks the Hutton Inquiry made of the wider issues has affected its credibility in respect of the cause of Dr Kelly's death. Although note that it was Hutton's conclusions and the bias applied to the wider issues, rather than the evidence presented, that was the travesty.

If you look at the evidence presented by ACC Page you will see that the police investigation into Dr Kelly's death was very thorough, and certainly did not rule out third party involvement. But no such evidence was found.

Originally Posted by Neuroleptic

My real problem with this is that either the British State, with all the resources at its disposal, managed a hamfisted bungling wet job that left more holes in its cover story than a tea strainer, or poor David Kelly was badly managed and let down at a time when he could least deal with it. Neither reflects well on the UK government, but the latter seems far more likely to me.

As requested in an earlier post, I have provide links to each of my points.
The fingerprint point is suprted in the link and comes directly from the Police.
I do not assert that HMG killed Dr Kelly but I do state that I believe the Hutton Inquiry was a deliberate atempt to cover up the real story behind his death.

Originally Posted by jagman

Originally Posted by Neuroleptic

My real problem with this is that either the British State, with all the resources at its disposal, managed a hamfisted bungling wet job that left more holes in its cover story than a tea strainer, or poor David Kelly was badly managed and let down at a time when he could least deal with it. Neither reflects well on the UK government, but the latter seems far more likely to me.

As requested in an earlier post, I have provide links to each of my points.
The fingerprint point is suprted in the link and comes directly from the Police.
I do not assert that HMG killed Dr Kelly but I do state that I believe the Hutton Inquiry was a deliberate atempt to cover up the real story behind his death.

He said MP Norman Baker had uncovered information showing there were no fingerprints on the knife the scientist apparently used to slash his wrist, even though he was not wearing gloves.

A Lib-Dem MP rather than a Policeman.