Thread: To what extent have BRITFOR breached the Geneva Convention?

Or, indeed - have BRTIFOR breached the Geneva Convention?

Today's Independent leads with the photograph below and write up as below.

Excerpt: A photograph handed to The Independent claims to show Iraqi civilians captured in southern Iraq being mistreated by British soldiers in breach of international law and the Geneva Conventions.

The incident is to be investigated at a public inquiry to be announced tomorrow by Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth, which will also examine evidence of one of the worst atrocities ever carried out by the British Army.

It is claimed that hours after the picture, left, was taken, the four men were transferred to a UK-run detention camp where they were badly beaten and where 20 other civilians were murdered by British soldiers.

Lawyers for the men say the photograph, held by the Army since May 2004 but only disclosed this year, supports evidence of the routine abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

The covering of a prisoner's face and rear handcuffing on the ground is a breach of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions which prohibits the humiliating and degrading treatment of detainees.

When this is done to support interrogations, as in this case, it also contravenes Article 31: prohibition of physical and moral coercion. It is also a breach of Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights, as well as the Army's own rules on the hooding of prisoners.

The International Committee of the Red Cross raised concerns about similar breaches in February 2004 when it warned the UK and US governments of these practices. The new evidence will add to calls for a full and proper public inquiry into 33 further abuse cases involving allegations against the British Army in Iraq between 2003 and 2008.

Last night, Lord David Ramsbotham, a former commander of the British Field Army and a former chief inspector of prisons, said he believed the picture showed inhuman and degrading treatment. He told The Independent: "There can be few people who have not been sickened, and saddened, by the images of Iraqi citizens being subjected to what is well described as inhuman and degrading treatment, at the hands of certain British soldiers.

"Sickened because this is not the kind of treatment associated with a nation that calls itself civilised; saddened because it besmirches the reputation of the British Army, so carefully preserved by so many people in many different circumstances," he said.

Kevin Laue, the legal adviser to Redress, which works with victims of torture, said: "In my view, what the photograph shows could well constitute cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment ... they appear to have been blindfolded to such an extent that almost their whole face has been covered, including the nose and even the mouth, which if so would obviously make normal breathing difficult...

Wahey, here we go again. More drivel with less substance than a Gordon Brown policy statement.

Everything is clearer with 20/20 hindsight.
If these bleeding heart liberals had been there,would their opinion be different?

Surely the civillian police handcuff detainees behind the back for their own protection? In a conflict situation, where death and seriuos injury are highly possible, what is the problem with hooding providing it is done only for personal protection? It also protects them I would have thought, making them compiant and easily controlled in a situation where guns are bristling.

Another attack on the soldiers I think - fed up of hearing them.

Soldiers have got to stop taking "happy snaps" because the enemy and the bedwetting liberals will use the pics against us.

The bedwetting liberals don't ever mention the treatment and real torture handed out by the enemy do they.

Originally Posted by ABrighter2006

Or, indeed - have BRTIFOR breached the Geneva Convention?

Today's Independent leads with the photograph below and write up as below.

with truth applied ................

Kevin Laue, the legal adviser to Redress, which works with victims of torture, said: "In my view, this offers me an excellent opportunity to make myself a lot of money through making spurious claims against the MOD. In addition Redress, my employers, will be able to raise their public profile and hopefully solicit some more donations in the run up to Christmas, and maybe even some funding for a new program overseas.

everybody has to make a living I suppose!

According to the Indie these insurgents had been taken during an attempted ambush on UK forces, so in that light they seem to be getting treated pretty well to me. What do the media expect our blokes to be doing, handing out Lam Bams and sweet brews to the poor dears?

Sections of the left leaning media have really got their crusties in a twist over the positive coverage of the army recently and are spitefully trying to reassure their core readership that soldiers are in fact the evil swine they always suspected.

[quote="scuba_frog"]Surely the civillian police handcuff detainees behind the back for their own protection? In a conflict situation, where death and seriuos injury are highly possible, what is the problem with hooding providing it is done only for personal protection? It also protects them I would have thought, making them compiant and easily controlled in a situation where guns are bristling.

Another attack on the soldiers I think - fed up of hearing them.[/quote]

Agree'd

BUT as the start of the Iraq inquiry has just begun I suspect we'll be hearing a LOT via our "story hungry media"

Dig in fella's, this is going to be a long one :(

Our security guards recently forcibly restrained a guy on the reception floor and bloody glad for it we were too. I imagine the compo claim is already inbound so better cancel the new CAT scanner and slash next years budget.

No doubt Mr Shiner will be rubbing "its" hands with glee at this point thinking about future claims/fee's, the tosser!

Just because the men on the ground are in civilian clothes and currently unarmed does not make them civilians. Surely, if they were captured during an attempted ambush, does this not make them unlawful combatants in violation of International Law, and therefore no longer subject to the Geneva Conventions.

And whilst on the subject of Geneva Conventions, I have read it several times and still cannot find the section that states that its ok to behead a prisoner and post the film on the internet.

I demand that Shiner do his research properly and meet with the insurgents to discuss their actions. Hell I'll even pay for his ticket to Baghdad, and back, if he lives that long.

Originally Posted by scuba_frog

Surely the civillian police handcuff detainees behind the back for their own protection? In a conflict situation, where death and seriuos injury are highly possible, what is the problem with hooding providing it is done only for personal protection? It also protects them I would have thought, making them compiant and easily controlled in a situation where guns are bristling.

Another attack on the soldiers I think - fed up of hearing them.

Not just our police, handcuffing behind the back and hooding of suspects, in particular those suspected of terrorism and or organised crime, seems SOP. People suspected of violent crime have to be rendered harmless, any thing else is inviting more violence.

Maybe next time we should just shoot the feckers out in the field, rather than take prisoners. It seems less likely to cause problems in the future.

Do you really expect any less from The Independant? A leftie, tree hugging paper such as The Independant loves photos like this and will publish them without any research into what actually happened before the photo was taken. What a non story; soldiers handcuff and restraint suspected insurgents and have an armed guard watching over them. WOW! Fair enough, perhaps the photo shouldn't have been taken but oh well.

I must apologise. I am an Independent reader, and so keep this newspaper going.

However, this story is complete and utter drivel for a specific audience.

I also can see fcuk all wrong with what is going on in that photograph.

Handcuffed and guarded - people who have just tried to ambush you. Yeah - evil ba$tards those soldiers