Thread: Civil Serpants £300M bonuses

Yet another non-issue elevated into the public domain, and which can only damage the military long-term. We used to be seen as people who delivered whatever, and however unfair, the circumstance.

There is now a real danger of public fatigue with the military - not a day now goes by without some accusation of 'Tommy' being treated badly, most of them utterly trivial issues.

Are we becoming that which we used to detest in the civilian world - serial whingers and whiners?

I think a lot of people are missing the point here - the MOD CS didnt want the bonus scheme in the first place. It was forced on us by the Treasury, which wanted to save money in the long term by reducing the size of its pension bill.

If the bonus scheme had been paid as salary (which was what would have originally occurred), then HMT would have increased its pension liability by £300m in the same time frame, leading to howls of anguish from all and sundry about the pension time bomb, and how we should embrace performance related pay.

Its been interesting today, I've seen a lot of my forces colleagues very much on our side - accepting that we really don't want the scheme and don't like it. I've also seen a lot of people who are very genuinely furious that the media seems to think we want the bonus, and that we don't care about the front lines, and all we care about is getting £350 before tax every year. What everyone, without exception wants, is for DGMC to actually stand up, and put a senior military officer into the fray to defend the CS and explain that what we do is important, does make a difference, and that we are thoroughly fed up with being seen as easy targets for the daily hates bash a target day.

Thank you to the vast majority of Arrsers for a sensible, measured response - it is appreciated.

I am in total agreement with most sensible comments here but what really annoys me is how the MoD's well feathered spin/pr machine allows itself to be manouvered into these positions where they have to defend themselves

Surely, if the MoD laid out the case for its civil servants and used many of the facts presented here the story would not have lifted off in the first place. The story itself is actually a few days old and I think came from a parliamnetary question so they had a few days to sort out a sensible case or even get their digs in early and pre-empt the story.

Time and time again the MoD get skewered by non stories, if anyone wants their arrses kicking its the PR department

What? The MoD has a PR Department? Well I'll be fukked!

Cut CS posts.
Give the work to external contractors.
MoD PR announces it's saved X amount in pay and pensions.
MoD PR conveniently forgets to mention that it's now costing 3 times the previous amount.
But at least they can say they've made a cut in manning.

Originally Posted by mnairb

'cheap housing, cheap schooling, free medical care etc.' - A2_Matelot seems to be confusing the British Forces with the Americans. He will be telling us that the forces don't pay tax next (another commonly held belief).

I worked for the Inland Revenue for 10 years and we used to tell people we got staff discount on PAYE as a wind up.

Most people fell for it because they wanted to believe the worst of us. It's the same with this non-story, people want to believe the worst of the MOD staff so they will take the story at face value.

Grunt end CS pay is not great. The bonus is built into the pay budget at the start of the year. A £1k bonus isn't going to change anyone's life and it hasn't robbed one serviceman of his body armour, a weapon, a helicopter ride or even an egg banjo.

As for deceased servicemen's families being asked to comment then I'd hope they'd have seen Mrs Janes and realised they'd do themselves or the memory of their son/father no favours by indulging gutter journos who care less for them than anyone.

Originally Posted by Oil_Slick

Originally Posted by Norfolknchance

Oil Slick: You talk sh1te

What the fvck are you on about?


Or do you know something about my bonus and leave entitlement this Christmas I don't?

I could be wrong but I think Norfolknchance thinks you wrote that long rant, seeing as you didn't put quote marks around it.

ARRSE has just hit the Guardian

MoD "civvies" also defended the system on the Army Rumour Service Arrse, an internet chatroom widely used by troops. One, calling himself scruff_2, said: "I am a MoD civvie. I have been in the MoD for 13 years. My basic is 18k a year. My bonus this year was £380."

Another, jim30, said: "We are not exactly being paid banker level bonuses here, and most people would rather that they used this pool of money to pay us properly, rather than this current sham of a scheme."

But another user, MrPVRd, criticised the decision to pay bonuses at a time when routine training for the Territorial Army was being suspended to save money - a decision that the government reversed last month.

"It beggars belief that these were to be paid at the same time that committed TA training was to be scrapped," he wrote.

Do they have a dedicated journo who sole job is monitoring ARRSE 24 hours a day? :D

Originally Posted by kes1

Do they have a dedicated journo who sole job is monitoring ARRSE 24 hours a day? :D

I don't know, but they seem to have 'Bosnia Bob' on 5 mins NTQ (Notice To Quote)

C_C

Originally Posted by Skynet

Tell me about this cheap housing schooling and medical care? Housing is the average of all council house rents in UK. (see AFPRB report) Medical care is the same as civilians get and they pay the same NI for it. Cheap schooling really? Please explain?

That all depends on where you are in the UK, my MQ is about 1/3rd the local rent of a similar property.

Cheap schooling - how else am I going to afford a decent private school education for my sprogs?

Medical Care - free prescriptions add up; you get accelerated private care (when required) and don't pay for it and ultimately our DMS people provide a very good standard of healthcare for us - far superior to civvies.

Dentistry - had a filling lately or a crown. Chuffing expensive.

Originally Posted by mnairb

'cheap housing, cheap schooling, free medical care etc.' - A2_Matelot seems to be confusing the British Forces with the Americans. He will be telling us that the forces don't pay tax next (another commonly held belief).

You really don't recognise some of the benefits of what we receive as part of our overall package?

Just wandered past a monitor at work and notice on Sky News they're wheeling out some deceased soldiers father to comment on this issue.

Now whilst I have absolutely every sympathy with the NOK of our fallen, how are they qualified to comment, why is it even reaching their conciousness?

This is simply some incredibly bad journalism latching onto a non-story and tarnishing the MOD collectively even further and perhaps more importantly driving a bigger wedge between the CS and the Uniformed. At a time when the SDR is being worked up it just makes MOD look even riper for further cuts/rationalisation which will help no-one.

Someone in the Corporate Communications desks at MOD MB need to get a grip on this and start briefing the right line.

"You wouldn't imagine a single civil servant going out to the frontline for that money. When you consider the risk they are running of being killed is one in 40 on the frontline and you have got more than that being injured ... how many civil servants would volunteer for that?"

I love the above quote from the Guardian article, off the top of my head I can name around 50 CS who have either deployed as CS or deployed as TA in the last 12 months alone! What utter shite being spouted by the press as usual! Standby for an end to the bonus system within the next couple of months and then wait for the screaming from the press about the increase pensionable pay next year!

Fame at last.

Originally Posted by meridian

ARRSE has just hit the Guardian

MoD "civvies" also defended the system on the Army Rumour Service Arrse, an internet chatroom widely used by troops. One, calling himself scruff_2, said: "I am a MoD civvie. I have been in the MoD for 13 years. My basic is 18k a year. My bonus this year was £380."

Another, jim30, said: "We are not exactly being paid banker level bonuses here, and most people would rather that they used this pool of money to pay us properly, rather than this current sham of a scheme."

But another user, MrPVRd, criticised the decision to pay bonuses at a time when routine training for the Territorial Army was being suspended to save money - a decision that the government reversed last month.

"It beggars belief that these were to be paid at the same time that committed TA training was to be scrapped," he wrote.

My point entirely. The bonus system is to incentivise the CS members; Rightly or wrongly its there and it is probably (I simply don't know) a good way of both encentivising and increasing pay without the burden of increasing pensions.

The Guardian guff is just that...guff. MOD get a grip and just brief the simple, honest line.

I really don't have an issue with it when its used properly. In all the posts where I've managed CS, its been a great tool to squeeze that additional amount of effort from them.

BUT when they get it simply because Reporting Officers are too lazy or lack spine - now thats a different matter.