Originally Posted by A2_Matelot

Originally Posted by kes1

Originally Posted by A2_Matelot

Originally Posted by Twice-the-man

God, I'm a prejudiced cnut!!!

You said it, but omitted blinkered and opinionated. Next time you pick up "Defence Focus" look closer under the title, it says "FOR EVERYONE IN DEFENCE".

I think he had it covered calling himself a cunt

Agreed but I can't help myself pointing out the blatently obvious; It's what makes being a Staff Officer enjoyable.....

God I knew that would get a bite! Lighten up fellas, you've got bonuses to look forward to! And probably an MBE if you ever 'deploy' and do a week in that huge Yank air base in Qatar counting invoices or something whilst stuffing your fat civvy faces...

Originally Posted by jim30

BPS – you do raise some good points. I don’t expect the average Tom to understand what the CS does, or why it does it. If Pte Bloggs could tell me that sort of thing, then, frankly, I’d be very worried!

Originally Posted by jim30

The problem is two-fold – firstly it’s a lack of education for the Armed Forces about what the MOD CS does. There is no point that I know until reasonably far up the staff college world that we actually sit down and explain to Officers what it is that the random MOD CS is there to do. Secondly, I think it is wrong that ICSC(L) will not allow any places to serving MOD CS – the best way for the army to understand why CS think the way they do, and more importantly for MOD CS to get the army way of thinking, is to work together at the junior staff level.

Despite what people think, the MOD is focused on delivering to the front line – its just that sometimes this message isn’t sold very well. For instance, UORs are a great example of that sort of work, but so is the unsung work done by all the admin guys in ammo depots, or storage areas ensuring that spares are loaded on and got out to theatre. Having worked in this world, I can assure you that things go wrong, not because a CS can’t be arrsed, but usually for major reasons far beyond the ability of a CS to influence. The problem is, that its easier to sit there and blame the CS for all the worlds failings, rather than look deeper into the problem (thinking here about the classic case of UOR vehicle spares, when delays in getting spares, attributed in the press to “pen pushers” were actually a result of pressures on the manufacturers in the USA).

I think deploying MOD CS on Ops has been absolutely brilliant – I’ve done a tour as a deployed CS and loved it. Its helped many CS understand the pressures that the forces are under, and more importantly for the future, because completing an Op Tour is now seen as a pre-requisite for promotion to senior levels, we are slowly ensuring that future MOD decision makers are likely to have got real, and often multiple periods, of operational experience. Of course being in Theatre isn’t the same as being on the pointy end facing Terry down a bayonet, but every CS I know who has deployed has been through their fair share of mortaring and other unpleasant experiences. This means that we’re not sitting here in an ivory tower of ignorance – we’ve been out there, we know (to a point) what life is like, and believe it or not, we’re on your side. It may seem hard to believe at times, but trust me when I say that the average CS (stand fast the genuine PITAs) wants to do all they can to support the front line, but we find it just as frustrating to deal with shortages and budget cuts as you do. Ultimately though, we are all bound by the decisions of our political masters.

Ooooh get you, precious cnut!

Originally Posted by Twice-the-man

Ooooh get you, precious cnut!

Do you not like having fact pointed out to you?

Cock

Originally Posted by Baldrick66

Originally Posted by Norfolknchance

I heard on the grapevine that some staff were told to get a specific number of training days in for management within that business unit to qualify for an enhanced bonus. Might be true.

I think you are talking about the mandatory 6 plus 4 training days that DES enforced last year. It wasn’t for an enhanced bonus it was a stick, that basically said if you didn’t complete mandatory job training you wouldn’t be submitted for a basic bonus as you haven’t complied with your job requirements and managers were told if ALL your staff don’t complete their training you won’t be submitted for a performance bonus as you are not managing your staff correctly.

Another classic example of a performance management system that conspires to distort the output of an organisation, the object here was to meet mandatory training, not to improve any processes.

Everyone should also realise that performance management systems in civvy street can be just as perverse but some of the more enlightened organisations are waking up to the fact that performance measurement systems have a whole load of unintended consequences where whole organisations and significant amounts of intellectual effort are expended on meeting a narrow range of targets and the actual real world performance cango fcuk itself.

Targets in these systems are ALWAYS met

The only true target for enterprise is profit, nothing more, nothing less

For the MoD and other public sector organisations it is actually very difficult because you don't have a simple metric like profit, easily measured and something that everyone can both relate to and contribute to.

Doesn't stop armies of HR personnel and management consultancies trying though, if you could come up with a simple metric that everyone can contribute to then you are on to winner, if not, keep on ticking those boxes, awarding bonus and thinking all in the garden is rosy.

Type 45, Astute, CVF, JCA, FRES, Typhoon, A400, forget them, whats a few billion quid and several years late to the user between friends

ASTOR was one of the few projects that came in under budget without the usual Creative accounting that most projects have to resort to come in on budget, would be interested to see if anyone in that team got a bonus

Originally Posted by Twice-the-man

Originally Posted by jim30

BPS – you do raise some good points. I don’t expect the average Tom to understand what the CS does, or why it does it. If Pte Bloggs could tell me that sort of thing, then, frankly, I’d be very worried!

Originally Posted by jim30

The problem is two-fold – firstly it’s a lack of education for the Armed Forces about what the MOD CS does. There is no point that I know until reasonably far up the staff college world that we actually sit down and explain to Officers what it is that the random MOD CS is there to do. Secondly, I think it is wrong that ICSC(L) will not allow any places to serving MOD CS – the best way for the army to understand why CS think the way they do, and more importantly for MOD CS to get the army way of thinking, is to work together at the junior staff level.

Despite what people think, the MOD is focused on delivering to the front line – its just that sometimes this message isn’t sold very well. For instance, UORs are a great example of that sort of work, but so is the unsung work done by all the admin guys in ammo depots, or storage areas ensuring that spares are loaded on and got out to theatre. Having worked in this world, I can assure you that things go wrong, not because a CS can’t be arrsed, but usually for major reasons far beyond the ability of a CS to influence. The problem is, that its easier to sit there and blame the CS for all the worlds failings, rather than look deeper into the problem (thinking here about the classic case of UOR vehicle spares, when delays in getting spares, attributed in the press to “pen pushers” were actually a result of pressures on the manufacturers in the USA).

I think deploying MOD CS on Ops has been absolutely brilliant – I’ve done a tour as a deployed CS and loved it. Its helped many CS understand the pressures that the forces are under, and more importantly for the future, because completing an Op Tour is now seen as a pre-requisite for promotion to senior levels, we are slowly ensuring that future MOD decision makers are likely to have got real, and often multiple periods, of operational experience. Of course being in Theatre isn’t the same as being on the pointy end facing Terry down a bayonet, but every CS I know who has deployed has been through their fair share of mortaring and other unpleasant experiences. This means that we’re not sitting here in an ivory tower of ignorance – we’ve been out there, we know (to a point) what life is like, and believe it or not, we’re on your side. It may seem hard to believe at times, but trust me when I say that the average CS (stand fast the genuine PITAs) wants to do all they can to support the front line, but we find it just as frustrating to deal with shortages and budget cuts as you do. Ultimately though, we are all bound by the decisions of our political masters.

Ooooh get you, precious cnut!

Originally Posted by Twice-the-man

Hello.

New to this site and I don't know if its a bit necky of a red arrse to start a new topic but wasn't sure where to post this:

Just had a look at the ARRSEpedia stuff about the different 'walts' and I would like to thank whoever took the time to compile that as it is some of the funniest things I've ever read. The ACF CSM from Lancashire who was having the correspondence with the 'American girl' he thought he was grooming....I genuinely had to dry my eyes. The picture of him and the 2 God-knows-what 'cavalry' troopers...........

Sir, I salute you. Just wanted to show my appreciation.

It's not often a wish comes true.

Coming next…


Brown announces he's stopping 'greedy civil servants' bonuses to rapturous cheers from the baying press and public…


No bonus, no pay rise, bonus for the Treasury, another 'bonus' scheme tackled, bonus brownie points for the Government.

Originally Posted by meridian

ASTOR was one of the few projects that came in under budget without the usual Creative accounting that most projects have to resort to come in on budget, would be interested to see if anyone in that team got a bonus

About 50-65% of them the same as every other project team under the current rules.

Oil Slick - do you think that hot on the heels of the PMs pronouncement, someone might like to point out that he was the man responsible for the introduction of the bonus scheme in the first place?

Originally Posted by Baldrick66

Originally Posted by meridian

ASTOR was one of the few projects that came in under budget without the usual Creative accounting that most projects have to resort to come in on budget, would be interested to see if anyone in that team got a bonus

About 50-65% of them the same as every other project team under the current rules.

Do the people that dream these schemes up come to work in big shoes and a red nose

Originally Posted by meridian

Originally Posted by Baldrick66

Originally Posted by meridian

ASTOR was one of the few projects that came in under budget without the usual Creative accounting that most projects have to resort to come in on budget, would be interested to see if anyone in that team got a bonus

About 50-65% of them the same as every other project team under the current rules.

Do the people that dream these schemes up come to work in big shoes and a red nose

I'd suggest standing outside Number 10 and see> Brown was behind the scheme when he was in Number 11.