Thread: American Psychiatrist Kills 13

I think we ought to take a deep breath before we start blaming PC for the failures of the CIA, FBI et al - it is far too easy for frustrated white men to kick those they think are weaker than them (which is why PC was brought in in the first place). There were some monumental failures in effectiveness, both sides of the Atlantic, but their cause was much more than about employing more women/ethnics, and we all know that.

I dislike PC intensely. I have experienced discrimination and efforts to eradicate that are to be welcomed. However, the system of quotas, lowering the bar and allowing incompetence to pass because of gender/race is wholly self-destructive. It is exactly the kind of blunt instrument that Govts are eager to deploy, because it's quick, easy to measure, highly visible and allows them to look good - but is pretty f*cking ineffective. It also gives the rednecks an absolute gift of a weapon against those who challenge their behaviour.

The simple fact is not all skills and knowledge reside in the brains of white men. There are many coloured/gay/female people out there who are gifted, highly intelligent, highly productive - and who would rather stick a wasps nest up their bum than work with a bunch of neantherdal white losers more interested in protecting the staus quo and their own fragile self esteem - life is too damn short gentlemen - I choose working with grown ups and some kind of intelligent working relationship.

The answer is to stop being afraid - of anyone who looks, talks, smells, eats, prays, dresses and plays different to you. For mosques to open their doors to the general public, like they do in Sweden. For white male dominated companies to provide such a bloody fine environment to work in that the brightest and the best will want to sell their skills to them. For some white men to shut the f*ck up when they're told their inanely boring banter in not funny to anyone but themselves. And a ton of other things that normal people with common sense do all the time.

That way you won't get the faeries, the inadequates, the bunny boliers and fruit loops taking advantage of the white male organisations who the really good, different ones out there have turned their backs on.

Originally Posted by DavidBOC

Jumpin Jarhead:
re the article you quoted "Army panel to examine Hasan's career"

I am not surprised to hear this. The question is why a loose cannon like Major Hasan was commissioned and then allowed to remain in the Army. All of us have 20/20 hindsight but it appears that someone should have been able to put all of the evidence together earlier. A would doubt if anyone wants answers more than General Casey. As an Army brat he lived on Army bases all over the world. He was commissioned only a month before his father, Major General Casey was killed in Vietnam. He has been an Army officer for over 39 years. His entire life is the Army. I sincerely hope that the investigtion that General Casey has ordered is allowed to be run without political interference.

It appears that lots of people saw bits and pieces of problems with Hasan but at no point was all this put together. A bit like the old story of the blind men trying to figure out an elephant. The man at the tail thinks the elephant is like a rope, the man at the leg, like a tree etc.

I would not want to predict what the investigation should determine but i would hope that a system will come out of this that encourages evaluations that take into account all of the information available.

Given the criticism the DoD has gotten since 9/11 about how few muslims are in the military and the chronic shortages of linguists and area specialists for the mideast and western Asia regions, I can only imagine the glee that the Army recruiters felt in snagging not only someone of Hasan's ethnicity but also one who was interested in becoming a doctor in the Army. Hasan allowed them to tick off the boxes on a number of recruiting quotas.

Originally Posted by DavidBOC

Jumpin Jarhead:
I sincerely hope that the investigtion that General Casey has ordered is allowed to be run without political interference.

Right and monkeys will fly out my butt. This investigation is going to be just as fair and impartial as the KSM trial in NYC will be. Is all a great big show, nothing more. They already have the report written, they just need to fill in the names of those to blame, all lower level officers am sure.

JJH said:

Given the criticism the DoD has gotten since 9/11 about how few muslims are in the military and the chronic shortages of linguists and area specialists for the mideast and western Asia regions, I can only imagine the glee that the Army recruiters felt in snagging not only someone of Hasan's ethnicity but also one who was interested in becoming a doctor in the Army. Hasan allowed them to tick off the boxes on a number of recruiting quotas

It will be interesting to see more of his background. Remember, he only recently fully qualified as a doctor at age 40. I recall reading that he had 8 years prior enlisted service before med school and perhaps before his BA/BS. I know Navy has a program to send enlisted personnel for college degrees. Many years ago the wife had an outstanding YN3 assigned to her office and she worked hard to get him into a program that would get him a BA and a commission. It is not clear at this time what Hasan's career path has been.

I think we will be reading about this for quite a while and all of us will be learning lessons from this.

Originally Posted by ctauch

They already have the report written, they just need to fill in the names of those to blame, all lower level officers am sure.

I would not go this far but I think your skepticism is in order in that given the very clear signals emanating from the highest levels at DoD and the White House, I doubt very much that the issue of the extent to which the notion of "PC" (in its broadest sense, not merely the superficial hypersensitivity to terminology etc.) was at play in the entire history of Hasan's involvement in the military will be aired out. This is but one of several "elephants in the room" that all of our common sense tells us are problems but due to various current policies (formal and informal) they cannot even be acknowledged without drawing immediate career-ending counter-battery fire.

AP article today:

FORT WORTH, Texas - An Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people during an attack on his Texas post will likely plead not guilty to the charges against him and may use an insanity defense at his military trial, his attorney said Monday.

John Galligan, the civilian attorney for Maj. Nidal Hasan, said he is considering an insanity defense among other options, but that it's too early to determine his defense strategy.

"Based on the evidence thus far, his mental status must be raised," Galligan told The Associated Press by phone from his office near Fort Hood, about 130 miles southwest of Dallas. "Anybody who allegedly engages in conduct that is completely contradictory to his lifestyle and military career - an insanity defense has to be considered."

......

Galligan said military law requires his client to plead not guilty if prosecutors seek the death penalty, but he said that decision has not been made.

Hasan remains in intensive care at a San Antonio military hospital, where he was taken after being shot during the attack. At a hearing in his hospital room Saturday, Hasan was ordered to remain in custody until trial.

Galligan said he is frustrated because prosecutors are taking too long to respond to his questions and requests. He said he has asked why no witnesses were allowed to testify during Saturday's hearing, and why it was closed to the news media. He said he had planned to question Hasan's commander, who in documents indicated Hasan would be moved to an unspecified hospital but did not say when.

Fort Hood officials did not immediately return calls seeking comment

and who better to fake the elements of an insanity defense than a psychiatrist. Of course a psychiatrist is also capable of faking a "cure" after a few years in a hospital.

well, I suppose he could have had some kind of mental break down - it all seems far too weird - he being in the military, helping those who had been affected by fighting, publicly describing his sense of conflict in what he was doing - if he felt like that, why did he stay serving? None of it makes any sense.

And why were his very public views not challenged or questionned by the CoC? (Not challenged because they were wrong, it's a free country) but didn't anyone pick up there was a serious conflict of interest brewing here?

Originally Posted by Prodigal

well, I suppose he could have had some kind of mental break down - it all seems far too weird - he being in the military, helping those who had been affected by fighting, publicly describing his sense of conflict in what he was doing - if he felt like that, why did he stay serving? None of it makes any sense.

And why were his very public views not challenged or questioned by the CoC? (Not challenged because they were wrong, it's a free country) but didn't anyone pick up there was a serious conflict of interest brewing here?

I repeat my contention that "PC" was very much at play here. For example, just imagine how this may have been handled if the good doctor had espoused white separatist views? Some insight into the answer to this admittedly rhetorical question can be found in the now-discredited April 2009 Dept. of Homeland Security report Linky that included this (note the bolded words-"some" without indicating a percentage of the total and it is even more incredible that the DHS used the mere accusation of a "civil rights" group (underlined), unnamed no less!- as an original source:

(U) Disgruntled Military Veterans

(U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat. These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the capabilities of extremists—including lone wolves or small terrorist cells—to carry out violence. The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.

— (U) After Operation Desert Shield/Storm in 1990-1991, some returning military veterans—including Timothy McVeigh—joined or associated with rightwing extremist groups.

— (U) A prominent civil rights organization reported in 2006 that “large numbers of potentially violent neo-Nazis, skinheads, and other white supremacists are now learning the art of warfare in the [U.S.] armed forces.”

— (U//LES) The FBI noted in a 2008 report on the white supremacist movement that some returning military veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have joined extremist groups.

One wonders why the FBI undertook an official study of "White Supremacist Recruitment of Military Personnel since 9/11" Linky but not a study of similar recruitment by muslims when the 9/11 attacks were IIRC made by those professing to do it in the name of islam.

mmmmmmm, interesting stuff. why indeed. I suppose you could speculate that they thought the white supremacists might try sneaking in whilst everyone was watching the Islamicists (or not, as the case may be). I have a strong and growing discomfort with PC for lots of reasons. Ironically, I am required to become part of the Great Charade for contractual reasons - I don't think the assembled company (several of whom were my clients) liked being told it was politically correct bullsh*t - but the primary objection I have is the completley false sense of security it gives those who think they are the protectors. They are not. And the crooks, the animals, the paedos and the terrorists walk straight past them whilst those of us who know them have to break the rules to stop them. It's insane, and growing worse.

Originally Posted by Prodigal

mmmmmmm, interesting stuff. why indeed. I suppose you could speculate that they thought the white supremacists might try sneaking in whilst everyone was watching the Islamicists (or not, as the case may be). I have a strong and growing discomfort with PC for lots of reasons. Ironically, I am required to become part of the Great Charade for contractual reasons - I don't think the assembled company (several of whom were my clients) liked being told it was politically correct bullsh*t - but the primary objection I have is the completley false sense of security it gives those who think they are the protectors. They are not. And the crooks, the animals, the paedos and the terrorists walk straight past them whilst those of us who know them have to break the rules to stop them. It's insane, and growing worse.

Funny that. I am also in a position where I see a good deal of it from the inside out and part of my responsibilities is to adjudicate claims of bias etc at my uni. It is quite apparent to me and my staff that we are increasingly a society of "victims" always at the ready to cry "wolf" if it might gain some advantage. Due to the budget woes, lay offs are being discussed and we have seen a marked uptick in complaints of "bias" (of all flavors from race to sexual orientation) being made by those we invariably learn are marginal performers who are in reality trying to innoculate themselves from being fired by then claiming retaliation for having made the original complaint. Total bollocks.

Resurrecting a year old thread but better than starting a new one.

It appears that the US Army will be disciplining 9 officers who were involved with the supervision and/or evaluation of Major Nidal Malik Hasan before he murdered 13 soldiers at Fort Hood.

Stories are in the media. BBC has a decent one:
BBC News - Nine officers to be disciplined over Fort Hood shooting

Originally Posted by DavidBOC

Resurrecting a year old thread but better than starting a new one.

It appears that the US Army will be disciplining 9 officers who were involved with the supervision and/or evaluation of Major Nidal Malik Hasan before he murdered 13 soldiers at Fort Hood.

Stories are in the media. BBC has a decent one:
BBC News - Nine officers to be disciplined over Fort Hood shooting

Not a pleasant episode for anyone but it's good to see the US Army putting it's house in order.

Interesting BBC article about the Islamic dog Hasan...

He has been described as devout and discreet.

Devout he may have been, but discreet I question. Why was he communicating with a radical imam from Yemen?

He is said to have been affected by injuries he saw at the Walter Reed Medical Army Center, where he worked as a psychiatrist treating troops returning from combat.

How did that make him feel? He did not react in an appropriate way which would have been feeling compassion for the injured troops and anger at the people who had injured them.

He was to have been deployed to Afghanistan, with some reports indicating he was unhappy about this.

Yes, no shit, Sherlock. It's the first time I've ever heard of pre-deployment PTSD being used as a defense for a guy going on a rampage and shooting up a mobilization center. He'd never been overseas on a deployment before and he was already burnt out. It's only a pity that the police bullets didn't finish the job. Death to the Islamic dog Nidal Malik Hasan! (And I believe a senior Army officer is recommending the death penalty be applied in this case.)

It's a good thing the Army is doing in disciplining the nine officers who failed to meet the high standards expected when evaluating the career of the criminal Hasan. Perhaps they could have prevented the tragedy from taking place in the first place if they had been more conscientious about their duties in conducting personnel reviews.

Update: It appears that they will seek the death penalty."Fort Hood shooting suspect will face death penaltyJuly 06, 2011 12:03 PM EDTFORT WORTH, Texas (AP) — The Army psychiatrist charged in the deadly Fort Hood rampage will be tried in a military court and face the death penalty, the commanding general for the Texas military post announced Wednesday.Maj. Nidal Hasan is charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder in the November 2009 shooting spree at the Texas Army post.It was not immediately clear when Hasan will be arraigned in a Fort Hood courtroom. He must plead not guilty based on the nature of the case, according to military law.Hasan's lead attorney, John Galligan, had urged the commanding general not to seek the death penalty, saying such cases were more costly, time-consuming and restrictive. In cases where death is not a punishment option for military jurors, soldiers convicted of capital murder are automatically sentenced to life imprisonment without parole."I believe the Army as an institution has long been planning to go this route," Galligan told The Associated Press on Wednesday from his office near Fort Hood, about 125 miles south of Fort Worth.Two Army colonels who reviewed the case previously recommended that Hasan be tried in a military court and face the death penalty.Galligan has declined to say whether he is considering an insanity defense for his client. He has refused to disclose results of a military mental health panel's evaluation of Hasan but said it would not prevent the military from pursuing a court-martial.The three-member panel determined whether Hasan is competent to stand trial and his mental state during the shootings. It also determined if he had a severe mental illness that day, and if so, whether such a condition prevented him from knowing at the time that his alleged actions were wrong.Hasan was paralyzed from the waist down after being shot by police the day of the rampage. He remains jailed in the Bell County Jail, which houses defendants for nearby Fort Hood.Hasan has attended several brief court hearings and an evidentiary hearing last fall that lasted about two weeks. He sometimes took notes and showed no reaction as 56 witnesses testified, including more than two dozen soldiers who survived gunshot wounds.Witnesses testified that a gunman wearing an Army combat uniform shouted "Allahu Akbar!" — which is Arabic for "God is great!" — and started shooting in a small but crowded medical building where deploying soldiers get vaccines and other tests. The gunman fired rapidly, pausing only to reload, even shooting some people as they hid under tables or fled the building, witnesses said. He fatally shot two people who tried to stop him by throwing chairs, and killed three soldiers who were protecting civilian nurses, according to testimony.The gunman was identified as Hasan, an American-born Muslim who was scheduled to deploy to Afghanistan the following month. Before the attack, Hasan bought a laser-equipped semiautomatic handgun and repeatedly visited a firing range, where he honed his skills by shooting at the heads on silhouette targets, witnesses testified during the hearing."

I volunteer for the Firing Squad, will bring my own Krag to civilize him...