Jesus Christ for the 10000000000 time, the position is not "President of the EU/Europe/overloard of the empire of lefty pacifists" it's president of the council, the post has less power then the guy at the counter of Mcdonalds handling your big mac....he can atleast spit in your burger if annoyed.
There will be no curtseying (for one thing that is a purely royal affectation, there is no none monarchy in Europe that does that, so why start now?)
As was said, there are monarchies around Europe who's royal families are held in an even higher regard nationally then the even the Queen ect is held on this board. There is no way (frankly what would be the point) that they would be allowed by their own people to be degraded by Cherie f.ucking Blair and what ever frog mouthed delusions of grandur she has.
The Queen will still be the head of state, long after Tony B and the witch have galloped onto pastures new....

Originally Posted by Archimedes

Originally Posted by lsquared

Why will nobody tell me whether HM The Queen will have to curtsey to Mrs Bliar when the latter named becomes 'First Woman' of Eurineland?

Come on Europhiles - tell us the truth. (Sorry, 'truth' is not done in Eurineland).

Well, despite being about as Europhile as Nigel Farage, I'll answer.

There's nothing in any of the vast array of bumpf surroudning the Lisbon Const... sorry, Treaty sections which outline the Presidential role to say that the wife (or husband if the President is female) is entitled to a curtsey.

For starters, since when has any President and their other half been entitled to a curtsey? But, let's assume that generations of protocol have been torn up and the President of the European Council is somehow monarchical in power...

First, can you imagine any politician (i.e. the ones who drew the const... sorry, Treaty up) bowing or curtseying to Mrs Blair? Sarkozy, for instance? I think not...

Second, the Danes, Dutch, Spanish and probably the Belgians have at least a reasonable degree of affection for their monarchs. Even the EU would appreciate that the sight of (say) King Juan Carlos being forced to bow to Mrs Blair would do a spot of damage to the image of the office, suggesting a degree of high-handedness.


Third, Mrs Blair may well end up as being the wife of the President of the European Council, but she's still a British subject (whatever she thinks of her position). No British subject is entitled to expect a curtsey from the monarch, no matter what political job they hold - and anyway, since she wouldn't be of regal status, no curtsey would ensue anyway.

Finally, how, exactly, would HMQ be forced to curtsey to Cherie Blair?

It's not legislated for in the Lisbon Treaty, it goes against all protocol, it'd be politically damaging for the EU's image in the nations which have monarchs, it'd be a PR disaster for the Blairs in more than one country and it's impossible to enforce.

Apart from those small obstacles...

Many thanks - I shall now remove my tongue from my cheek. :D

Originally Posted by petergriffen

Jesus Christ for the 10000000000 time, the position is not "President of the EU/Europe/overloard of the empire of lefty pacifists"

Oh! I am sooooo thick, so he is going to be, unelected of course, President of the Eurineland County Council. Doesn't sound grand enough for him but there's none so queer as folk! (Unless we are talking Pretty Peter and the Swamper).

'Pacifists' eh? They are in for a surprise when Field Marshall Bliar gets his spurs on - oh! yes, in for a very big surprise.

Maybe, his militaristic antics will cause the Eurineland Soviet to implode.

Note to Mr. Cameron: Day 1 - disband any vestige of 'Regional Assemblies' in Great Britain and replace them with branches of the Women's Institute or the Cubs.

Interesting article in Private Eye this week, along the lines that the Germans and Czech Governments are looking to 'pick and choose' which bits of the Treaty/Constitution apply to them, as the Irish have been allowed to do.

The Czechs want a guarantee that the Germans cannot use the Treaty to make restitution claims related to expulsions at the end of WW2. Slovakia also wants to protect itself against this.

Germany's constitutional court (why don't we have one of those, I wonder) said in June that the EU was not properly democratic, the Lisbon Treaty did nothing to correct the 'cultural democratic deficit' and therefore the EU could not automatically have the final word over the rights of its citizens. This is now enshrined in German Law, so Germany's highest courts could overturn judgements of the European Court of Justice if it finds the rights of German citizens have been violated.

PE's point is that if a big country like Germany starts to say no if it doesn't like a Brussels edict, the door is open to other nations to pick and choose EU laws.

There's a test case working its way through the German courts, with pronouncement due at the end of the year.

How ironic, that it takes the Germans to fight for our rights and freedoms, when our own policitians from Heath, through Thatcher and Major to Blair and Brown, have systematically signed them away.

Originally Posted by Grownup_Rafbrat

Interesting article in Private Eye this week, along the lines that the Germans and Czech Governments are looking to 'pick and choose' which bits of the Treaty/Constitution apply to them, as the Irish have been allowed to do.

The Czechs want a guarantee that the Germans cannot use the Treaty to make restitution claims related to expulsions at the end of WW2. Slovakia also wants to protect itself against this.

Germany's constitutional court (why don't we have one of those, I wonder) said in June that the EU was not properly democratic, the Lisbon Treaty did nothing to correct the 'cultural democratic deficit' and therefore the EU could not automatically have the final word over the rights of its citizens. This is now enshrined in German Law, so Germany's highest courts could overturn judgements of the European Court of Justice if it finds the rights of German citizens have been violated.

PE's point is that if a big country like Germany starts to say no if it doesn't like a Brussels edict, the door is open to other nations to pick and choose EU laws.

There's a test case working its way through the German courts, with pronouncement due at the end of the year.

How ironic, that it takes the Germans to fight for our rights and freedoms, when our own policitians from Heath, through Thatcher and Major to Blair and Brown, have systematically signed them away.

The German Federal court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) which operates over the regional federal courts only functions in two areas; senate one, review of laws and legislation; and senate two. political processes.

If I had an issue with a German contract it would go to the regional Landgericht then eventually to the Bundesgerichtshof - never to the Bundesverfassungsgericht. If I was not happy with a ruling from the Bundesgerichtshof, I could still get it overruled by the European Court of the First Instance or the European Court of Justice. National law cannot be in contradiction to EU law, and where there is overlap one or the other will make a ruling over who has jurisdiction.

All German courts can be overruled by the ECJ in matters relating to EU law, but not for things that are only applicable under German national law - like having to register your dog....

There is currently a very interesting case going to the ECJ challenging a Federal law that makes relatives liable for care expenses of old people even if that relationship has ended in divorce. e.g. you get to pay for your ex-wifes mothers old peoples home....

Originally Posted by lsquared

Originally Posted by petergriffen

Jesus Christ for the 10000000000 time, the position is not "President of the EU/Europe/overloard of the empire of lefty pacifists"

Oh! I am sooooo thick, so he is going to be, unelected of course, President of the Eurineland County Council. Doesn't sound grand enough for him but there's none so queer as folk! (Unless we are talking Pretty Peter and the Swamper).

'Pacifists' eh? They are in for a surprise when Field Marshall Bliar gets his spurs on - oh! yes, in for a very big surprise.

Maybe, his militaristic antics will cause the Eurineland Soviet to implode.

Note to Mr. Cameron: Day 1 - disband any vestige of 'Regional Assemblies' in Great Britain and replace them with branches of the Women's Institute or the Cubs.

With what military Lsquared?....even the Pope has the rather nails Swiss guards, the PEUC (copyrighted to me now :D, pronounced like F'uck ) has a few weezey security guards and not even the authority to order them into any sort of action beyond ordering a cappucino.

Maybe, his militaristic antics will cause the Eurineland Soviet to implode.

Of course everything mutates/adapts/collapses eventually...the EU is no different.

With what military Lsquared?... quote from 'petergriffen'.

Let us start with the 'European Navy Task Force' reported ad nauseam by the BBC (The Joint Propaganda Ministry of the European National Socialist Soviet Union and its 'colony' GB).

Next, The European Rapid Reaction Force (this may have died)

Whatever, the European National Socialist Soviet Union may not have 'military' now, but it will, believe me it will. When it does, become afraid, very afraid.

PS: Is The Vatican in the EU? Serious question.

Originally Posted by petergriffen

Jesus Christ for the 10000000000 time, the position is not "President of the EU/Europe/overloard of the empire of lefty pacifists" it's president of the council, the post has less power then the guy at the counter of Mcdonalds handling your big mac....he can atleast spit in your burger if annoyed.
There will be no curtseying (for one thing that is a purely royal affectation, there is no none monarchy in Europe that does that, so why start now?)
As was said, there are monarchies around Europe who's royal families are held in an even higher regard nationally then the even the Queen ect is held on this board. There is no way (frankly what would be the point) that they would be allowed by their own people to be degraded by Cherie f.ucking Blair and what ever frog mouthed delusions of grandur she has.
The Queen will still be the head of state, long after Tony B and the witch have galloped onto pastures new....

Good - if the President has no more power and authority than a burger flipper, let's save ourselves the 270, 000 quid salary by not bothering with one. Save ourselves the Palace, motorcade, travel and subsidence budget, pension plan, pomp and ceremony whilst we are at it.

And what are we going to do about it? Apathy is letting this country sleep walk to its european destiny.

Now its out in the open it will be ratified, the Conservatives need to make it clear what they intend to do about it, time for woolly answers has past.