Useful

**JoeCivvie** · 23-10-2009, 07:24

I sincerely hope these blokes are a bit more switched on than the ones who surrounded a mini, raked it with fire and failed to kill the bloke inside - which was lucky, because he was the wrong bloke.

"Stephen Waldorf was a 26-year-old film editor who was shot and severely injured by Metropolitan Police officers in London, England on January 14, 1983. The officers mistook Waldorf for David Martin, an escaped prisoner charged with attempting to murder a police officer. Waldorf was unarmed and sitting in his car in a traffic jam in Pembroke Road, Earls Court, London, when he was shot five times in the head and body at close range. The police discharged fourteen shots in all.

Waldorf was unconnected with Martin, though the police believed that his passenger, Sue Stephens, was Martin's girlfriend. Waldorf eventually made a full recovery and was paid £150,000 compensation by the police.

David Martin was rearrested shortly after the shooting, he was found guilty at Old Bailey of the attempted murder of PC Nicolas Carr and was sentenced to life in prison. He later committed suicide when he was found hanging in his prison cell.

Police officers John Jardine and Peter Finch stood trial for attempted murder and attempted wounding of Waldorf, but were cleared of all charges in October 1983.

In a 1991 edition of BBC's Panorama, Waldorf recounted that after being shot, he fell out of the open car door, at which point a police officer pressed the barrel of his revolver between his eyes and said, "Okay, cocksucker," before pulling the trigger. Finding that he had already used all his ammunition, the officer then pistol whipped Waldorf until he lost consciousness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Waldorf_shooting

**eveyoz** · 23-10-2009, 07:42

Its just posturing.

**hogg** · 23-10-2009, 08:03

Originally Posted by JoeCivvie

I sincerely hope these blokes are a bit more switched on than the ones who surrounded a mini, raked it with fire and failed to kill the bloke inside - which was lucky, because he was the wrong bloke.

"Stephen Waldorf was a 26-year-old film editor who was shot and severely injured by Metropolitan Police officers in London, England on January 14, 1983. The officers mistook Waldorf for David Martin, an escaped prisoner charged with attempting to murder a police officer. Waldorf was unarmed and sitting in his car in a traffic jam in Pembroke Road, Earls Court, London, when he was shot five times in the head and body at close range. The police discharged fourteen shots in all.

Waldorf was unconnected with Martin, though the police believed that his passenger, Sue Stephens, was Martin's girlfriend. Waldorf eventually made a full recovery and was paid £150,000 compensation by the police.

David Martin was rearrested shortly after the shooting, he was found guilty at Old Bailey of the attempted murder of PC Nicolas Carr and was sentenced to life in prison. He later committed suicide when he was found hanging in his prison cell.

Police officers John Jardine and Peter Finch stood trial for attempted murder and attempted wounding of Waldorf, but were cleared of all charges in October 1983.

In a 1991 edition of BBC's Panorama, Waldorf recounted that after being shot, he fell out of the open car door, at which point a police officer pressed the barrel of his revolver between his eyes and said, "Okay, cocksucker," before pulling the trigger. Finding that he had already used all his ammunition, the officer then pistol whipped Waldorf until he lost consciousness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Waldorf_shooting

In 1983 you say? I do believe there may have been some changes in 26 years :o

**Drlligaf** · 23-10-2009, 08:22

Originally Posted by hogg

Originally Posted by JoeCivvie

I sincerely hope these blokes are a bit more switched on than the ones who surrounded a mini, raked it with fire and failed to kill the bloke inside - which was lucky, because he was the wrong bloke.

"Stephen Waldorf was a 26-year-old film editor who was shot and severely injured by Metropolitan Police officers in London, England on January 14, 1983. The officers mistook Waldorf for David Martin, an escaped prisoner charged with attempting to murder a police officer. Waldorf was unarmed and sitting in his car in a traffic jam in Pembroke Road, Earls Court, London, when he was shot five times in the head and body at close range. The police discharged fourteen shots in all.

Waldorf was unconnected with Martin, though the police believed that his passenger, Sue Stephens, was Martin's girlfriend. Waldorf eventually made a full recovery and was paid £150,000 compensation by the police.

David Martin was rearrested shortly after the shooting, he was found guilty at Old Bailey of the attempted murder of PC Nicolas Carr and was sentenced to life in prison. He later committed suicide when he was found hanging in his prison cell.

Police officers John Jardine and Peter Finch stood trial for attempted murder and attempted wounding of Waldorf, but were cleared of all charges in October 1983.

In a 1991 edition of BBC's Panorama, Waldorf recounted that after being shot, he fell out of the open car door, at which point a police officer pressed the barrel of his revolver between his eyes and said, "Okay, cocksucker," before pulling the trigger. Finding that he had already used all his ammunition, the officer then pistol whipped Waldorf until he lost consciousness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Waldorf_shooting

In 1983 you say? I do believe there may have been some changes in 26 years :o

Yes indeed, . Shooting innocent Brits is just not on.

I believe that Brazilian electricians are now favourite targets

**old_fat_and_hairy** · 23-10-2009, 08:43

Or people carrying repaired wooden chair legs in plastic carrier bags.

**vvaannmmaann** · 23-10-2009, 08:45

Originally Posted by eveyoz

Its just posturing.

Tell Jean Charles de Menezes that.

**Trotsky** · 23-10-2009, 08:55

Originally Posted by JoeCivvie

I sincerely hope these blokes are a bit more switched on than the ones who surrounded a mini, raked it with fire and failed to kill the bloke inside - which was lucky, because he was the wrong bloke.

"Stephen Waldorf was a 26-year-old film editor who was shot and severely injured by Metropolitan Police officers in London, England on January 14, 1983. The officers mistook Waldorf for David Martin, an escaped prisoner charged with attempting to murder a police officer. Waldorf was unarmed and sitting in his car in a traffic jam in Pembroke Road, Earls Court, London, when he was shot five times in the head and body at close range. The police discharged fourteen shots in all.

Waldorf was unconnected with Martin, though the police believed that his passenger, Sue Stephens, was Martin's girlfriend. Waldorf eventually made a full recovery and was paid £150,000 compensation by the police.

David Martin was rearrested shortly after the shooting, he was found guilty at Old Bailey of the attempted murder of PC Nicolas Carr and was sentenced to life in prison. He later committed suicide when he was found hanging in his prison cell.

Police officers John Jardine and Peter Finch stood trial for attempted murder and attempted wounding of Waldorf, but were cleared of all charges in October 1983.

In a 1991 edition of BBC's Panorama, Waldorf recounted that after being shot, he fell out of the open car door, at which point a police officer pressed the barrel of his revolver between his eyes and said, "Okay, cocksucker," before pulling the trigger. Finding that he had already used all his ammunition, the officer then pistol whipped Waldorf until he lost consciousness."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Waldorf_shooting

Dont know if this is true but I as once told he was in Martins car, with his girlfriend and wearing a wig that made him look like Martin? Which , if true, buts rather a different perspective on his "innocence".

Anyway as I was 200 miles away as a very junior CCF bod when this happened I file it under "ancient history".

Trotsky

**old_fat_and_hairy** · 23-10-2009, 09:15

[

Dont know if this is true but I as once told he was in Martins car, with his girlfriend and wearing a wig that made him look like Martin? Which , if true, buts rather a different perspective on his "innocence".

Anyway as I was 200 miles away as a very junior CCF bod when this happened I file it under "ancient history".

Trotsky[/quote]

This was a story put about by a DCI from the div that the CId came from.
I was serving in blue at the time and it made a huge impact on our operational behaviour.

In fact, I believe this was the spur for the founding of specialist depts, instead of the ad hoc procedure at the time, whereby any "authorised shot" could draw a firearm for a job on spurious info.

What really was disturbing was the amount of times he was shot, and survived, only to be pistol whipped by the cop. Now that is what made it look really bad.

**DPM_Sheep** · 23-10-2009, 09:23

First time? For the Met maybe. They've been doing armed patrols in gang blackspots in Nottingham on and off for 10 years.

**cdn_spr** · 23-10-2009, 09:38

the mention of the stephen waldorf case brings to mind THIS CASE from my home town. Knowing 3 cops on that police department, I took great pleasure in handing out paper targets to them after this happened.

I am all for cops having guns, but how about we nail down ROE's and priciples of marksmanship first.