Armed plod on routine foot patrols!

**Arankay** · 22-10-2009, 20:05

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Arankay

A number of things, firstly, UK Police AFO's don't have 'rules of engagement', they use the 'Conflict Management Model' to ensure that the force option they choose, lethal or otherwise is lawful and proportionate to the threat posed at the time, they must then justify their actions in law.

Secondly no 'Home Office' forces have 'fire selectors', all their long arms are 'carbines', in that they are single shot only, though at least one Non HO forces does have automatic weaponary (CNC).

Lastly this is not a new tactic a number of forces with a 'standing authority' have been doing it for years.

True, but a bit boring and restrictive though well meant

Thanks mate, I'll spice it up with a couple of 'armed blagger slottings' next time!

**Stoppage!!!** · 22-10-2009, 20:11

Originally Posted by Arankay

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Arankay

A number of things, firstly, UK Police AFO's don't have 'rules of engagement', they use the 'Conflict Management Model' to ensure that the force option they choose, lethal or otherwise is lawful and proportionate to the threat posed at the time, they must then justify their actions in law.

Secondly no 'Home Office' forces have 'fire selectors', all their long arms are 'carbines', in that they are single shot only, though at least one Non HO forces does have automatic weaponary (CNC).

Lastly this is not a new tactic a number of forces with a 'standing authority' have been doing it for years.

True, but a bit boring and restrictive though well meant

Thanks mate, I'll spice it up with a couple of 'armed blagger slottings' next time!

Thanks, sounds good :D

**Drlligaf** · 22-10-2009, 20:25

Interesting comment from the anti gun people, who bearing in mind the fact that firearms crime just keeps increasing in Britain, obviously haven't quite got a grasp of the facts:

Gill Marshall-Andrews, chairwoman of the Gun Control Network campaign group, described the routine arming of officers as a "very retrograde step" and warned that it could lead to higher levels of gun crime.

"This is likely to raise the stakes and encourage more criminals, especially young criminals, to arm themselves," she said.

"Gun crime in this country is very low by international standards and that's largely because there aren't many guns about. Arming police officers sends out all the wrong messages."
It is interesting to compare England and Germany with respect to armed foot patrols. Foot patrols barely exist here, although all patrol vehicles have an SMG. The GCP is quite heavily armed, you just don't see it. For the most part the police in Britain are not armed, but when they are, they seem to go for it.

**Trotsky** · 22-10-2009, 20:30

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Monty417

18 Met cops with guns to cover the main areas of gun crime ie:

Hackney, Lambeth, Southwark,
Haringey, Waltham Forest, Lewisham,
Brent, Tower Hamlets, Newham, Islington,
Greenwich, Ealing, Barking & Dagenham
Hammersmith & Fulham, Enfield,
Camden, Wandsworth, Redbridge,
Croydon & Merton.

It's a start I suppose.

That's alledgely 18 on foot, but there are always gunships provided by SO19 and SO6 doing the rounds, (excuse the pun). Armed response is never far away especially in Central London.

SO6? Things must be bad if the old Fraud squad are doing armed patrols now?

This isn't some huge ratchet up. This is basically ARV's without the vehicle, and community involvement. ... 19 are seeking to divert youth away from gun crime (they are forming a team to do this and have an unarmed Special Constabulary unit to do some of the leg work), foot patrols are part of this.

Trotsky

**Werewolf** · 22-10-2009, 20:32

Originally Posted by Drlligaf

Interesting comment from the anti gun people, who bearing in mind the fact that firearms crime just keeps increasing in Britain, obviously haven't quite got a grasp of the facts:

Gill Marshall-Andrews, chairwoman of the Gun Control Network campaign group, described the routine arming of officers as a "very retrograde step" and warned that it could lead to higher levels of gun crime.

"This is likely to raise the stakes and encourage more criminals, especially young criminals, to arm themselves," she said.

"Gun crime in this country is very low by international standards and that's largely because there aren't many guns about. Arming police officers sends out all the wrong messages."
It is interesting to compare England and Germany with respect to armed foot patrols. Foot patrols barely exist here, although all patrol vehicles have an SMG. The GCP is quite heavily armed, you just don't see it. For the most part the police in Britain are not armed, but when they are, they seem to go for it.

Darwinism!

**Stoppage!!!** · 22-10-2009, 20:33

Originally Posted by Trotsky

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Monty417

18 Met cops with guns to cover the main areas of gun crime ie:

Hackney, Lambeth, Southwark,
Haringey, Waltham Forest, Lewisham,
Brent, Tower Hamlets, Newham, Islington,
Greenwich, Ealing, Barking & Dagenham
Hammersmith & Fulham, Enfield,
Camden, Wandsworth, Redbridge,
Croydon & Merton.

It's a start I suppose.

That's alledgely 18 on foot, but there are always gunships provided by SO19 and SO6 doing the rounds, (excuse the pun). Armed response is never far away especially in Central London.

SO6? Things must be bad if the old Fraud squad are doing armed patrols now?

This isn't some huge ratchet up. This is basically ARV's without the vehicle, and community involvement. ... 19 are seeking to divert youth away from gun crime (they are forming a team to do this and have an unarmed Special Constabulary unit to do some of the leg work), foot patrols are part of this.

Trotsky

SO6 used to be CO6 (DPG) Door, posts & gates

**Trotsky** · 22-10-2009, 20:48

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Trotsky

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Monty417

18 Met cops with guns to cover the main areas of gun crime ie:

Hackney, Lambeth, Southwark,
Haringey, Waltham Forest, Lewisham,
Brent, Tower Hamlets, Newham, Islington,
Greenwich, Ealing, Barking & Dagenham
Hammersmith & Fulham, Enfield,
Camden, Wandsworth, Redbridge,
Croydon & Merton.

It's a start I suppose.

That's alledgely 18 on foot, but there are always gunships provided by SO19 and SO6 doing the rounds, (excuse the pun). Armed response is never far away especially in Central London.

SO6? Things must be bad if the old Fraud squad are doing armed patrols now?

This isn't some huge ratchet up. This is basically ARV's without the vehicle, and community involvement. ... 19 are seeking to divert youth away from gun crime (they are forming a team to do this and have an unarmed Special Constabulary unit to do some of the leg work), foot patrols are part of this.

Trotsky

SO6 used to be CO6 (DPG) Door, posts & gates

No SO6 was the fraud squad and later the specialist crime directorate (SCD6) DPG was SO16.

and i Beleive is now CO6.

**Stoppage!!!** · 22-10-2009, 20:51

Originally Posted by Trotsky

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Trotsky

Originally Posted by Stoppage!!!

Originally Posted by Monty417

18 Met cops with guns to cover the main areas of gun crime ie:

Hackney, Lambeth, Southwark,
Haringey, Waltham Forest, Lewisham,
Brent, Tower Hamlets, Newham, Islington,
Greenwich, Ealing, Barking & Dagenham
Hammersmith & Fulham, Enfield,
Camden, Wandsworth, Redbridge,
Croydon & Merton.

It's a start I suppose.

That's alledgely 18 on foot, but there are always gunships provided by SO19 and SO6 doing the rounds, (excuse the pun). Armed response is never far away especially in Central London.

SO6? Things must be bad if the old Fraud squad are doing armed patrols now?

This isn't some huge ratchet up. This is basically ARV's without the vehicle, and community involvement. ... 19 are seeking to divert youth away from gun crime (they are forming a team to do this and have an unarmed Special Constabulary unit to do some of the leg work), foot patrols are part of this.

Trotsky

SO6 used to be CO6 (DPG) Door, posts & gates

No SO6 was the fraud squad and later the specialist crime directorate (SCD6) DPG was SO16.

and i Beleive is now CO6.

I really should stay awake in lessons, the pace of change is to much for me. are you free for a PM (just checked, I was right, SO6 is now DPG as of Feb 09)

**Patchett44** · 22-10-2009, 21:33

Originally Posted by Bravo_Zulu

I can't see anything wrong with this. The PSNI have 9,200 officers, every one of whom is routinely armed, and it doesn't affect their performance.

Perhaps if all PCs were conversant with firearms from day 1 of week 1 we might not have SFOs shooting people in lessons or DPG officers leaving pistols in Starbucks...

How very dare you - Handbag who left her sidearm in Trap 2 was SO1 Prot

The other fellow was a County Mountie version of an SFO - different animal altogether

**Im_bored** · 22-10-2009, 21:48

Originally Posted by Patchett44

The other fellow was a County Mountie version of an SFO - different animal altogether

Who had failed the Firearms Instructors course...

**Sun_Too** · 22-10-2009, 21:51

Sticks and stones, SO6, 16, 19 ... what's in a name.

Guys, I sense there are two or more police types amongst you, and since police have to consider other factors than military, question time, hope it's not too late:

Serious gun spotter mode on!

In choosing a weapon and ammunition for the kind of "urban warfare" described in the article starting this thread (roger so far?), if not concerned with political correctness in the first instance (just you and your immediate "team" going to sort a challenging area), what would be more of a concern:

- stopping power, as in energy transfer or hydrostatic shock
- penetration power (I know, stay with the ballistic properties on this one, please)
- (danger of) overpenetration (let me check, no it's not the NAAFI bar)

etc, the list is not exhaustive.

If you just want to be funny or Creative, that's fine too.

**Patchett44** · 22-10-2009, 23:41

Originally Posted by Sun_Too

Sticks and stones, SO6, 16, 19 ... what's in a name.

Guys, I sense there are two or more police types amongst you, and since police have to consider other factors than military, question time, hope it's not too late:

Serious gun spotter mode on!

In choosing a weapon and ammunition for the kind of "urban warfare" described in the article starting this thread (roger so far?), if not concerned with political correctness in the first instance (just you and your immediate "team" going to sort a challenging area), what would be more of a concern:

- stopping power, as in energy transfer or hydrostatic shock
- penetration power (I know, stay with the ballistic properties on this one, please)
- (danger of) overpenetration (let me check, no it's not the NAAFI bar)

etc, the list is not exhaustive.

If you just want to be funny or Creative, that's fine too.

General consensus ? - G36 Shortie Sig P229 Taser

**jumpinjarhead** · 23-10-2009, 03:13

Originally Posted by spiffy

I don't understand why the police need guns the Government banned guns so there can't be any gun crime, just like they banned carrying knives and now there's no knife crime.

It sounds like you have been listening to those brilliant community organizers and other activists in the US.

**whatnow?** · 23-10-2009, 03:22

why dont the peelers use the mighty HK SA80 A2??

Its from HK
It has the gucchi handgrip
It has ACOG sight
UGL for tear gas (Maybe?) 40mm tear gas would be an idea

The goverment says that its one of the best there is !
why the feck are they paying EXTRA for the cops to have a different weapon when there is no need ????????????

ps They could just do a cleanse of those areas ,would anyone really mind?

PPs i bags the tear gas idea !

**Listy** · 23-10-2009, 04:48

Originally Posted by Drlligaf

Interesting comment from the anti gun people, who bearing in mind the fact that firearms crime just keeps increasing in Britain, obviously haven't quite got a grasp of the facts:

Gill Marshall-Andrews, chairwoman of the Gun Control Network campaign group,

Its Gill Andrews, a creature, who in my world is challenging the Labour party, for head of the queue when the revolution comes! Reading her comments normally induces yelling at the screen, in much the same manner as I hear Mandelson provokes amongst other readers.

She's one of these rabid tree hugging fruit cakes who believes if you ban all guns (including Air rifles, as they can be easily converted into fire arms*) then there will be no Gun crime. When the last round of Anti-shooter legislation was pushed through the Government had her on their advisory panel. Despite the Gun control network at the time number around 8 people.

In one great demonstration of her bile filled existence, she bullied and heckled the mother of a firearms victim. The Mother was presenting the idea at a gun crime seminar, that no new legislation was needed. Just enforcement of the current rules and educating people about firearms. Andrews then popped up and started verbally laying into her.

Yes, I despise the fucking bitch.

*If I remember right (and it has been a few years) her mob where the ones that invented the statistic that XX% (can't remember the exact figure) of all firearm crimes where committed with converted Tandem Air Cartridge guns. It later came to light that they had the decimal point in the wrong place. But by that time the Media had started screaming about them and surprise surprise TAC's where outlawed.