Originally Posted by TankieMan

Not privatise but use some private sector business practices?.... Privatise then?

Shop around for a good deal? Okay, Fires Are Us take over duties and are happy to come to anybody in need of their services... as long as its nowhere too rural of course.... "Those local authorities may have provided a fire station and properly trained men and women to go with it in Tickle-on-the-Tum sir,but it's hardly ever used you see, only a handful of fatalities and families lives destroyed in the last couple of years so we shut it down. So no, sorry sir you're not in one of our big-earning areas. I could give you the number of a call-centre though... Hello?.... Sir?.... Must've hung-up." (Please don't think that's not too un-realistic a scenario to contemplate!)

BMW sell cars. Gas, water and electric companies provide basic human necessities that, even in twenty-first century Britain, are becoming more and more un-affordable to great numbers of people around the country. Are you familiar, atall, with the phrase 'heat or eat'? Maybe your granny knows someone in this predicament.

And finally, and I mean finally - Show me exactly where in that last little tuppence-worth of mine I accused ANYBODY of supporting the BNP?

Stay safe.

This was how the fire service came into being. Most Fire Services were the employees of Insurance Companies. So if you were insured you called the fire service of that company.

Linky here http://www.fireservice.co.uk/history/

Originally Posted by chocolate_frog

Originally Posted by jarrod248

It seems only certain occupations have a sort of addiction to striking, maybe they have a large number of French employees.
As a Nurse I don't think our professional body would ever let us strike and if we did it would lose a lot of public support. I'm sure that I don't know all the issues but reducing a 15 hour shift to 12 hours seems a good plan to me.

Yeah, but then there is no basis for a bit of 'power wob action' thus, the second job goes out the window.

The Fire Brigade had a good deal prior to 2003, then they got greedy. The FBU went on a kami kaze mission (the public support swung from them to the boys getting ready to do or die in sandy climes) and ended up with argueably a worse deal.

No more paid sleepy shifts for Sam and the boys of blue watch, or I am pretty sure that will be the end game.

Still, even at 0100hrs you can clean a fire engine, or fix a hose.

Second job you say? Do they need to get permission to have a second job, I do.
Can't be too bad a job if you can get your head down instead of working. I'll double check my ashtray before I go to bed tonight.

Originally Posted by TankieMan

South Yorkshire Fire Authority - and this would include their Chief Fire Officer (a military equivalent being a unit's Commanding Officer), are threatening to sack 744 Firefighters, this coming January unless they sign-up to a new contract with new, imposed, terms and conditions. The term "efficiency savings" is being thrown around, as always, so the people of S Yorks. can rest-assured that it's not their safety and well-being that's top of the agenda here either.

Now, a lot of you guys don't have any choice in your terms and conditions - you have to go where your told, and do what you're told and dry your eyes and get on with it. Civvy street's an entirely different ball game and the public sector even more so. Trade unions are their to protect the rights of their workers. Workers have a right to know how any new contract will affect their working AND domestic lives without being threatened with the sack.

Firstly, "threatened" is a deliberately provocative word. Any civvie employee who refused to do what they were told to do by their employer would find themselves "threatened" with the sack.

Secondly, I have a lot of respect for the job that firefighters do, but 'rights' should extend to things like adequate equipment. When it comes to not being paid enough or a change in shift patterns, they have the 'right' to leave.

I think I alluded to that in an earlier response - good linky though.

I may be way off the mark here, but I seem to recall that if Trumpton give up their 15 hour night shift for a 12 hour shift, then they are not entitiled to a bed at the station.

Back in 2002(?) a fireperson spoke publicly and stated words to the effect of "Firefighters need beds because they may need to respond in the middle of the night and therefore need to be sharp and wide awake because they have to make snap decisions."

As a paramedic (who, incidentally has recently been to more than one funeral of colleagues who have hanged themselves) I am liable to be sacked if caught asleep whilst on duty.

I obviously don't need to be either 'sharp' or have to make 'snap'decisions during my night shifts then. Even whilst at the same RTCs that the firebods are at. Even whilst telling them which bit of the vehicle I want cut off. Even whilst 'taking the patient to hospital after the Fire Service have cut them free from the wreckage'

Good PR is invaluable

Bunch of big-timers who believe their own publicity.

Having said that, the retained chaps and chapesses share a good working relationship with the ambo service.

Originally Posted by dogfondler

I may be way off the mark here, but I seem to recall that if Trumpton give up their 15 hour night shift for a 12 hour shift, then they are not entitiled to a bed at the station.

Back in 2002(?) a fireperson spoke publicly and stated words to the effect of "Firefighters need beds because they may need to respond in the middle of the night and therefore need to be sharp and wide awake because they have to make snap decisions."

As a paramedic (who, incidentally has recently been to more than one funeral of colleagues who have hanged themselves) I am liable to be sacked if caught asleep whilst on duty.

I obviously don't need to be either 'sharp' or have to make 'snap'decisions during my night shifts then. Even whilst at the same RTCs that the firebods are at. Even whilst telling them which bit of the vehicle I want cut off. Even whilst 'taking the patient to hospital after the Fire Service have cut them free from the wreckage'

Good PR is invaluable

Bunch of big-timers who believe their own publicity.

Having said that, the retained chaps and chapesses share a good working relationship with the ambo service.

I bet being on QRF was sh1t with you being in charge.

You and I know paramedics do sleep on nights and even the RRV's find a nice central spot just off a junction and snooze so don't try and fib us. If any of the emergency services can get their heads down and be fresh that can only be a good thing. Fire Fighters and Paramedics quite rightly shouldn't be expected to stay awake and drive around wasting fuel when there are no emergencies as their presence is hardly going to make the fire change its mind or encourage the heart not to have an attack.

Originally Posted by Closet_Jibber

Originally Posted by dogfondler

I may be way off the mark here, but I seem to recall that if Trumpton give up their 15 hour night shift for a 12 hour shift, then they are not entitiled to a bed at the station.

Back in 2002(?) a fireperson spoke publicly and stated words to the effect of "Firefighters need beds because they may need to respond in the middle of the night and therefore need to be sharp and wide awake because they have to make snap decisions."

As a paramedic (who, incidentally has recently been to more than one funeral of colleagues who have hanged themselves) I am liable to be sacked if caught asleep whilst on duty.

I obviously don't need to be either 'sharp' or have to make 'snap'decisions during my night shifts then. Even whilst at the same RTCs that the firebods are at. Even whilst telling them which bit of the vehicle I want cut off. Even whilst 'taking the patient to hospital after the Fire Service have cut them free from the wreckage'

Good PR is invaluable

Bunch of big-timers who believe their own publicity.

Having said that, the retained chaps and chapesses share a good working relationship with the ambo service.

I bet being on QRF was sh1t with you being in charge.

You and I know paramedics do sleep on nights and even the RRV's find a nice central spot just off a junction and snooze so don't try and fib us. If any of the emergency services can get their heads down and be fresh that can only be a good thing. Fire Fighters and Paramedics quite rightly shouldn't be expected to stay awake and drive around wasting fuel when there are no emergencies as their presence is hardly going to make the fire change its mind or encourage the heart not to have an attack.

Absolutely, the point that I was trying to make was the fact that the 15 hour night shift entitles the firefighter to a bed, whereas the paramedic risks a sacking for being asleep. It is the potential losing of the bed that is upsetting the dripstands. At no point did I say that paramedics didn't sleep on nights.

You would have loved my QRF. We had grot mags, mars bars and nodded off at every opportunity. :D

Ah - Apologies sah... I thought you were pulling the wool over our eyes!

My idea of QRF was get dressed into full kit then have a near death experience sleeping until we went back on to Patrols or got crashed out!

Went past the Headquarters tonight and there they were, supping cans. Didn't show that on the news bulletin did they? Noooo. Get back to work you idle sods.

I've been away from this site for a while, but felt I HAD to react to this subject.

I was in the Paras in the 90's and then joined the Fire Service in 2004.

I'm a full time Firefighter, and agree with the fact that we shouldn't be allowed to strike. To be honest, I believe that we shouldn't even WANT to strike, but, even though I may not see why we should try and solve problems this way, I can see why some Firefighters push things to this level.

The Fire Brigade, over the last few decades, has done a bloody hard job, as well as many things that they weren't expected to do, and not paid to do. As the years went on, the Brigade Bosses have added item after item to be completed, with job after job that they claim needs to be done as part of a normal working shift.

Imagine doing a difficult job, and being paid a reasonable wage. Then, as the years pass, imagine watching MANY other folks getting more and more money, while your wage doesn't rise, but your job list grows to an almost un-achievable level.
Now, imagine that the extra things you're expected to do, take away your ability to train and prepare for the thing that's most likely to kill you.

Would you like to go to War with no real training in the last 6 to 12 Months?

I thought not. If they forced you to, how much money would you want to do it?

The Fire Service used to be guys who trained, checked and cleaned their life saving equipment, trained again and then waited for the calls to come in while keeping themselves fed and watered enough to put up with the 800 - 1000 deg C heat at jobs..... Yes chicken cooks nicely at 200 deg C.

Fires may have reduced in numbers, but they're still bloody hot, very dangerous and quite regular. As modern houses get more lethal to enter when burning, we need MORE training, not bullshit paperwork and visits to folks houses and schools etc.

As for our wages...... We DON'T get a load of money, and alot of it goes to pensions and charities before it even enters our bank accounts.

To the comment regarding nice cars at Fire Stations..... I can tell you, that the ONLY folks who have nice cars, are young guys who still live with Mom, or the folks who have their own business or other job on their days off, due to the shit wages we pick up.

So...... If I asked you to enter into a building that was so hot, it was falling down and with nothing more than a bit of water and a cylinder of breathable air, how much would I need to pay you? Now add to that the fact that going back to your Fire Station, you get another call, and then another one after that...... Do you see my point?

I know what the military do deserves more money..... But at least your busy periods last 6 Months before calming back down again. Fire Fighters do it for about 50 hours a week, for years and years and years. With MANY of these guys getting injured or killed.

So I'll end with the fact that striking IS wrong, but so is paying a guy peanuts to put his life on the line every week for the next 30 years.