Not forgetting the Armed Civilian Watchmen/Dog Handlers in BFG. What a cushty number that one was. I know it was, 'cos I did it for 2 years!!!

Originally Posted by longwayhome

RMP primary role is to police and provide police support to the force on operations.

Really?

The in-garrison policing is a secondary role

Really?

and supports operations through the maintenance of policing skill sets.

Do not post after consuming alcohol, it is not wise.

Originally Posted by Qwmbatwatchdog

Originally Posted by longwayhome

RMP primary role is to police and provide police support to the force on operations.

Really?

The in-garrison policing is a secondary role

Really?

and supports operations through the maintenance of policing skill sets.

Do not post after consuming alcohol, it is not wise.

Er... is that a wah??!! You think its the other way around?? Do tell... be interested in your thoughts on the subject. Be online again tmw and will check this thread again then. Bed now (and yes after a couple of glasses of wine... ;))

Originally Posted by Cougar

I thought that nuclear sites were guarded by the Civil Nuclear Constabulary?

http://www.cnc.police.uk/

What Military nuke sites do we have apart from Faslane and Coulport?

Aldermaston (check out the site below for more info, but shhhhh it's a secret)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/uk/facility.htm

Originally Posted by vaeviso

Originally Posted by Herrumph

Six if you include the Sovereign Base Police in Cyprus (Ch Const, Deputy, UK and local officers ...kerching!)

...who are busy policing the almost entirely law abiding population of the SBAs at a ratio that far exceeds that with which the Met polices London.

This ratio is of course totally unconnected with the fact that Cyprus is a nice sunny place with good beaches.

Policing and guarding involves about 12,000 personnel across the civil service and Army plus the RAF and RN Police and various odds and sods on top of that

I bet all told its nearer 15,000

Does seem high in relation to the whole organisation, I expect any cuts will just involve top slicing and muddling through, more joint organisations etc but no real reform

Another example of MOD quangos cutting back on everyone other than themselves.

The proof is in the pudding that the real waste of money at the MOD are the people charged with sitting around all day pushing pens and making decisions such as this.

Outside intervention should be cutting back on the chiefs in order to retain Indians.

Yet another example of Comrade Gordons scorched earth policy doing his best to secure a labour re-election in 5 years time.!

Originally Posted by longwayhome

Er... is that a wah??!! You think its the other way around?? Do tell... be interested in your thoughts on the subject. Be online again tmw and will check this thread again then. Bed now (and yes after a couple of glasses of wine... ;))

Yes, in fact, I do disagree.

What you did with your post was to quote highly selectively from the RMP Web Site and in doing so ignore a huge swathe of information which would have provided both context and balance to your somewhat dramatic argument.

RMP, unlike a large number of other functions in the Army, has a full time role both on and off Operations. The primary role, which is conducted 365 days a year 24 hours per day, is to provide Police Services to the Army both in Garrison AND in the Field on Operations.

This is clearly demonstrated on Op Herrick where both forms of support are provided in Camp (GS) and in the Field (CS). Neither role is primary or secondary; both are ‘the role’. I am not disputing that skills are transferable, they should be.

There is a creeping attitude, especially amongst those who remain aloof from the NCOs and their skills, that you can cherry pick those parts of the job of RMP which appear exciting, massage the ego, or make riveting conversation in the Mess.

Police work is by its very nature dull and repetitive but it is the role of the Royal Military Police.

Here are a few details from the RMP site which you appear to have chosen to overlook:

The Royal Military Police (RMP) are the Army's specialists in Investigations and Policing and are responsible for policing the military community worldwide

The RMP exist in order to deploy, they are distinct from their civilian counterparts as they have unique operational tasks that have no equivalence in civil society. The RMP deploy as part of the field army, both at home and overseas, in support of the full spectrum of national and multi-national, joint, multi-agency conflict, conflict prevention and post conflict operations.

Whilst other agencies can, and do investigate crime committed by or against members of the Defence Department, it is the Service Police alone who have the unique capability to deliver the full range of policing functions, throughout the spectrum of conflict, at home and abroad. The policing capability required by the Army in the UK, Germany and other overseas Stations is provided by the RMP

This is worth a repeat don’t you think?

it is the Service Police alone who have the unique capability to deliver the full range of policing functions, throughout the spectrum of conflict, at home and abroad. The policing capability required by the Army in the UK, Germany and other overseas Stations is provided by the RMP

The policing skills utilised by the RMP in Station maintain the skills required on operations. Whilst the environment the RMP work within may change dramatically on deployment, the policing skills required are the same. There is an inextricable linkage between policing operations at home and on deployment, and all skills must be immediately transferable.

The investigations conducted on operations must be the same high standard as those conducted at home producing professionally complied case reports that show due regard to the laws of evidence and the Service Police Codes of practice. In high intensity conflict and on peace support operations the investigative procedure is the same; it is only the location that changes.

I could go on.

Er... yeah you could go on but it sounds like we are having a violent agreement on this. I agree with pretty much everything you've quoted and if you look over my posting history you'll see I'm pretty aware of what the role and balance are on Op HERRICK.

I'm also reasonably aware of what the nature of police work is like in the RMP but thanks for informing me about the dull and boring nature of police work!!??

Hmm.. your use of the CS and GS terms are also really interesting... where did you pick them up? A doctrine note? A pre-deployment briefing maybe? ;)

You'll note in my original post I said: 'RMP primary role is to police and provide police support to the force on operations' See? I talked about policing AND providing police support to the force (the more generic terms used prior to the defining of what CS and GS sp entails - where did you pick up the current draft doctrinal definitions for CS and GS by the way?).

Did you miss that bit or wasn't I clear enough in the post??

I didn't say one was more important than the other on operations (although in HERRICK the percentage balance last time I looked was well in favour of CS over GS - however that changes depending on the OC's estimate) but I do maintain that support to operations is why we exist (for me the key is in the phrase 'The RMP exist in order to deploy') This is what I was attempting to educate our wider Army brethren on and definitely what I believe the RMP is for (he though our primary role was the same as MDP RNP and RAFP and offered his thoughts on amalgamation).

I'm not saying that we don't police on operations. I'm saying that is our raison d'etre! We also do a number of other related critical tasks as well.

However if there were no ops to support or train for and provide the specialist policing support to then there are a number of agencies that could do the job in barracks instead (indeed as in one of the quotes above they do!). The ability to provide the full spectrum of policing services is what makes us absolutely unique!

Maybe we should move the discussion to the AGC forum if you feel like continuing. I'm sure we are boring the wider military community with this deep discussion on RMP doctrine! Start up a thread if you want and I'll happily join in. It's my favourite subject!

longwayhome

I said (without geographical qualification) that the primary role of the MDP and the service police is to police the armed forces and the defence estate. As far as the service police are concerned, that applies on ops as well as at home.

While I do not claim to have any detailed knowledge regarding the workings of the service police, I have observed them, both at home and on ops. I do not think policing (and I use the term in its broadest sense) on ops is the preserve of the RMP and I have seen the RAFP working on ops, on and off base, most recently at Bastion. Doubtless the RNP could also perform a similar function if called upon to do so.

My point is, the 3 service police forces appear to have enough in common to enable them to amalgamate, without too many problems. They derive their authority from the same legislation, do they not? I believe the MDP also deploy a limited number officers into operational theatres too, albeit mostly in instructor roles.

How much co-operation is their currently between all of these police forces, particularly when it comes to policing the defence estate and the armed forces at home? Very little, I suspect. You may therefore end up with separate 'defence police' patrols, MDP, RNP, RMP and RAFP, all operating in the same geographical area, because they all happen to have single-service units thereabouts, with no knowledge of the one another's activities. I suspect the same applies to investigative effort. Do the service police have a combined policy staff? If not, why not? These are inefficient uses of manpower and a waste of money, which is especially galling in these lean times.

As far as service police tasks on ops are concerned, how many of these are specialist policing jobs and how many are attempts at 'padding out' the role. For example, the RMP often seem to be used to supplement standard infantry patrols or as property baggers during hard knocks. The RAFP on ops seem to be moving further toward the RAF Regiment FP role. That is not to decry the professionalism or commitment of the service police on ops, but, as with their role at home, there does seems to be a good deal scope for a re-think on what they do and how they do it. The same goes for the MDP. Bearing in mind the recent controversies regarding investigations on ops, I believe the MDP, as part of a joint-service police force, might be able to bring a more independent-minded approach to the senior management of the service police, as the MDP ACPO ranks tend to be recruited from Home Office police forces.