Thread: Lisbon Treaty Vote

White flags are flying over the Post Office in Dublin as Ireland caves in to Euro domination, now watch Cameron follow suit.

Originally Posted by Manley

White flags are flying over the Post Office in Dublin as Ireland caves in to Euro domination, now watch Cameron follow suit.

I am beginning to wonder how big the brown envelopes handed out to politicians are over all of this.
I've reached the conclusion that Cameron has no intention of standing up for the UK on this one, I reckon he's quietly hoping its a done deal before the election.

Originally Posted by Manley

White flags are flying over the Post Office in Dublin as Ireland caves in to Euro domination, now watch Cameron follow suit.

Yeah cool story brah....it's now mandatory to learn German too.

Originally Posted by jagman

Originally Posted by Manley

White flags are flying over the Post Office in Dublin as Ireland caves in to Euro domination, now watch Cameron follow suit.

I am beginning to wonder how big the brown envelopes handed out to politicians are over all of this.
I've reached the conclusion that Cameron has no intention of standing up for the UK on this one, I reckon he's quietly hoping its a done deal before the election.

He isn't "quietly hoping". He might as well have shouted it from the top of the building Andrew Marr just interviewed him in.

"SOMEBODY- ANYBODY- MAKE THE DECISION FOR ME!!!! I'm looking at YOU Poland and the Czech Republic!"

Originally Posted by MrShanklysboots

Originally Posted by jagman

Originally Posted by Manley

White flags are flying over the Post Office in Dublin as Ireland caves in to Euro domination, now watch Cameron follow suit.

I am beginning to wonder how big the brown envelopes handed out to politicians are over all of this.
I've reached the conclusion that Cameron has no intention of standing up for the UK on this one, I reckon he's quietly hoping its a done deal before the election.

He isn't "quietly hoping". He might as well have shouted it from the top of the building Andrew Marr just interviewed him in.

"SOMEBODY- ANYBODY- MAKE THE DECISION FOR ME!!!! I'm looking at YOU Poland and the Czech Republic!"

I didn't watch it but I'm not surprised.
As much as I despise Brown I am not convinced Cameron is fit to govern either. In the absence of a clear policy on the Lisbon Treaty I will not vote for him. Perhaps if he eventually grasps that he will lose millions of votes because of his lack policy we might have some hope.

Anyone remember the events of November 1990 when Margaret Thatcher was unceremoniously booted out of No.10 because she balked at the idea of surrendering Britain's sovereignty?I bet everyone in Westminster and Whitehall does-that was a shot across the bows that EVERYONE in UK politics heeded.No-one since has been unwise enough to cross the EU,or those other even more covert and unaccountable characters the Bilderberg committee.One is tempted to wonder whether they had any part in that?....

Message from the Czech President to the British public...

But the Czech president today sent a message that in a sense was telling the Tories not to depend on a Czech delay. He said that after today's referendum "there will never be another referendum in Europe". He was then asked whether he had a message for Britain. "I am afraid," he replied, "that the people of Britain should have been doing something really much earlier and not just now, too late, saying something and waiting for my decision".

Gordon Brown must be loving this.

He and New Labour are the ones who promised the referendum, reneged and then signed up to the Lisbon Treaty. And yet, here you all are on ARRSE making it sound as if it is Cameron and the Tories to blame.

Ireland 'saves' Europe!
Who would believe it?

Originally Posted by jagman

I've reached the conclusion that Cameron has no intention of standing up for the UK on this one, I reckon he's quietly hoping its a done deal before the election.

If its a done deal before the Election, Cameron will have a much bigger fight on his hands than you think.

It will no longer be between Labour and the Conservatives, it will be Brussels V Labour V Tories to run the country. Tony Blair will have risen from the dead to haunt Cameron!

Just like you wouldnt expect a poker player to show off his cards, dont expect the powerless opposition to come up with the answers to everything, thats the governments job!

Originally Posted by whitecity

Message from the Czech President to the British public...

But the Czech president today sent a message that in a sense was telling the Tories not to depend on a Czech delay. He said that after today's referendum "there will never be another referendum in Europe". He was then asked whether he had a message for Britain. "I am afraid," he replied, "that the people of Britain should have been doing something really much earlier and not just now, too late, saying something and waiting for my decision".

Gordon Brown must be loving this.

He and New Labour are the ones who promised the referendum, reneged and then signed up to the Lisbon Treaty. And yet, here you all are on ARRSE making it sound as if it is Cameron and the Tories to blame.

No, the blame lies firmly with Blair and Brown for what has happened and what will happen upto the general election.
Form the point where Cameron becomes PM (which is odds on favourite) it is his responsibility. At this point in time there is no reason to believe that his intentions are anything other than to accept the Lisbon Treaty.
All that some of us are saying is that Cameron must tell us what he intends if he wants our support/vote

Given the God awful job the Irish Government has made of running the country I did think there might be a protest vote.

Looking at the numbers there's sod all sign of that. For Lisbon to pass by 67% to 33% surprises me slightly. The turnout (58%) was the highest since the vote to join the EU in 72. Only two (Donegal) of the 43 constituencies voted against by fairly narrow margins. This is the most positive Irish EU vote since Maastricht (68.7% yes) in 92.

A yes was inevitable if you looked at the exit polls of no voters from last time, 75% were keen to seek better terms and vote again. A 40% swing is impressive.

Dublin South voted 82% for it. A lot of sleek Dubs shat themselves when they saw plucky little Iceland going down the tubes, the nightmare of trading in the Merc for a battered Fiat hit home. In the rest of the country too many mothers are struggling along on the Da's Bru to be listening to Father Pádraig rants on baby killers in Brussels.

That's a total landslide. The Chuckies will be gutted.

This is a dramatic blow to Sinn Féin's dream of a united Ireland

...
For the last decade, Sinn Féin have been winners rather than losers. In Northern Ireland the party has eclipsed the SDLP as the main nationalist force in the Assembly. If fresh Assembly elections were called now, Sinn Féin could well emerge as the largest party in Stormont, given the threat of the hardline Traditional Unionist Voice taking votes off the Democratic Unionist party. That is the main reason why Gordon Brown arrives in Belfast tomorrow as he seeks to secure a deal between Sinn Féin and the DUP over the transfer of policing and justice powers from Westminster to Belfast.

Yet in the Republic the party's fortunes are in sharp decline and yesterday's Lisbon result only underlines that political fact. Back in June 2008 Sinn Féin thought that being on the victorious side of the first Lisbon referendum would galvanise their project in the Republic. Now they find themselves as the only Dáil party to call for a "No" vote. Indeed, in the first constituency modern Sinn Féin secured a Dáil seat in, Cavan/Monaghan, a majority of the electorate ignored the party's line on Lisbon: 61% of voters in the border constituency voted "Yes" this time.

What the Lisbon vote illuminates is the chasm between the politics of Northern Ireland and the politics of the Republic. While Sinn Féin is very much a mainstream force north of the border, in the south it remains very much at the margins, even at a time when the government is so unpopular due to the recession. The party that once hoped to be in power in both Dublin and Belfast simultaneously, and thus drive forward a United Ireland agenda, has failed to exploit these exceptionally dire political-economic conditions.

Ireland's endorsement of Lisbon also underlines again the reality of partition on the island. By voting "Yes" the Republic draws ever closer to the EU and the eurozone economy. With a Conservative victory extremely likely in the next general election, Northern Ireland is set to remain in the sterling zone and thus disconnected from any future all-Ireland currency.

One of the main by-products of this weekend's Lisbon result is that Sinn Féin's vision for a United Ireland by 2016 – the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising – is entirely illusory.

Which is nice.

Heard some Irish pundit this morning.His take was that there is now hope in Eire that the yes vote will secure more inward investment from the Septics,and boost The Celtic Tiger.

Originally Posted by MrShanklysboots

Originally Posted by jagman

Originally Posted by Manley

White flags are flying over the Post Office in Dublin as Ireland caves in to Euro domination, now watch Cameron follow suit.

I am beginning to wonder how big the brown envelopes handed out to politicians are over all of this.
I've reached the conclusion that Cameron has no intention of standing up for the UK on this one, I reckon he's quietly hoping its a done deal before the election.

He isn't "quietly hoping". He might as well have shouted it from the top of the building Andrew Marr just interviewed him in.

"SOMEBODY- ANYBODY- MAKE THE DECISION FOR ME!!!! I'm looking at YOU Poland and the Czech Republic!"

Gavin Hewitt on the BBC says Vaclav Klaus recommends Cameron to get his finger out sharpish:

...
The Czech parliament has approved the Lisbon Treaty, but the Eurosceptic President Vaclav Klaus has refused to sign. A group of senators close to him have filed a complaint with the Czech Constitutional Court that the treaty lays the foundation for a superstate and so violates Czech laws. Some say the court will deliver its ruling in three
weeks. In that event it would be difficult for the president to resist putting his signature to the document. However, the court may take longer to decide, perhaps months.

And that is the fear that stalks the political corridors of much of Europe. Because in about eight months the British will hold an election. If David Cameron wins, and if
there is still a country in Europe that has not ratified the treaty, then he will hold a referendum. Indeed, the date will be revealed during the election campaign. David Cameron pledged again today to "keep fighting" against the treaty. It is presumed in Brussels that the UK would vote "No" and the Lisbon Treaty would be dead.

But the Czech president today sent a message that in a sense was telling the Tories not to depend on a Czech delay. He said that after today's referendum "there will never be another referendum in Europe". He was then asked whether he had a message for Britain. "I am afraid," he replied, "that the people of Britain should have been doing something really much earlier and not just now, too late, saying something and waiting for my decision".

That sounds like a politician who knows he'll be signing soon. We shall see. If his words are borne out it leaves David Cameron with an awkward question to answer. What will he do if all 27 countries have ratified the treaty? Some in his party, like the Bruges Group, want him to commit to a "retrospective referendum". Other politicians will call on him to accept the treaty as "a fact of life" or at least to come clear about where he stands.

He will not answer while the Czechs are still deciding, but that may not be for much longer.

Cameron will be praying that this one's gone back in the grass come election time. Last thing he needs is the wrapped in the flag Europhobes splitting the Tory vote, he'll want The City on side.

Mick Fealty over on Slugger asks Are the Tories now planning a staged and inelegant climbdown over Lisbon?

Danny Finklestein lays out what Dave is likely to do over Lisbon. And he doesn’t think, if William Hague is formulating the party’s response to Ireland’s emphatic yes to Lisbon, that Lisbon will figure until the changes have been made (and it looks like the much hoped for resistance from his political ally and Polish president Lech Kaczy´nski is collapsing) we will hear anything much about it in Manchester this week:

Once bits of the Lisbon treaty have been implemented, it will be much easier to win the debate about accepting it as a reality (albeit an annoying one) and moving on. And I bet that is what they decide to do.

I’ve worked with William Hague on the Europe issue and I think I understand how he thinks. He moves when he has to and can shift straight to a new robust position. He doesn’t want a continually updated discussion. But if this is the view they take, they cannot object to the media noting that they have been required to put party management ahead of a clear Prime Ministerial course of action.

As Conall notes even the Czech President has just kicked David Cameron’s last viable eurosceptic stick away...

Of course foreign policy has never been a priority for Cameron, but by prioritising the management of his party’s internal conflicts over Europe - note the impetuous promise during his party’s leadership campaign to leave the EPP - may indicate that whilst Cameron has nerve aplenty, his longer term problem may lie the quality of his judgement.

After all, as Ireland has discovered to its cost, it is no longer the case that a country can deal with any single great issue on the purely domestic plane…

A simple and informal poll:

How many Arrse members support EU Membership for the UK?


Yes or No.

thank you.