Originally Posted by Steven_McLaughlin

I’ve just noticed the huge streak of irony running through my argument

There's a huge streak of something running through it...

I agree with Werewolf, and it's what I've been saying for yonks. Just declare victory and get the lads home. The other option is to flood the place with 500,000 to 600,000 troops and make a proper occupation of it. The only problem then is that Muslim fighters from all over the world would be drawn to Affers like shies to flit, thus necessitating even more troops.

The only reasonable thing to do is as Werewolf said. There's really no other choice, whether it's done in six months, two years or whenever, it'll happen. So why not now and spare a good few lives?

Forget all this bollix about Muslims taking over the world, it'll never happen. In Muslim countries, two villages three clicks apart can't even agree on a common policy, so the idea that billigans of Muslims are going to agree to travel untold thousands of miles to descend on Western countries is ridiculous to the point of comicality. Of course, there'll always be a few nutters around, but we'll just have to deal with it as it comes.

MsG

Without getting all hippy on you, i'd say the greatest threat to the world is not radical islam. They have been kicking up a stink for decades and other than a handful of spectaculars in the west they have killed less people than normally die in gardening accidents. Maybe world hunger, enviromental disasters, Global warming, Giant asteroids or even an invasion of the men from mars is more likely to have large scale impact on the World as a whole. Islamic extremists are just filling the hole of world bad guys in public opinion and the movies left by the ussr until china takes it up. Until then Rambo and bond will be in Afghanistan or EYE-rack.

Originally Posted by Kyle_ni

Without getting all hippy on you, i'd say the greatest threat to the world is not radical islam. They have been kicking up a stink for decades and other than a handful of spectaculars in the west they have killed less people than normally die in gardening accidents. Maybe world hunger, enviromental disasters, Global warming, Giant asteroids or even an invasion of the men from mars is more likely to have large scale impact on the World as a whole. Islamic extremists are just filling the hole of world bad guys in public opinion and the movies left by the ussr until china takes it up. Until then Rambo and bond will be in Afghanistan or EYE-rack.

No, thats garbage. You seriously thing that a few melting ice caps over the next 50 or so years is more pressing than an Iranian supplied (or Saudi aquired, depending on whether its a crazed Suuni or Shia group) irradiated suitcase bomb going off in London, Washington or somewhere similar? No. So why say it then?

At least China have the gonads to squash their problematic restless Uighurs. Nobody else in the Westernised World has the stomach to REALLY show their populace that they are prepared to play hardball with their homegrown jihadi's and their extensive network of international supporters and backers.

Steve, I agree with your subject heading, maybe not all your justification, but food for thought.... What would we do if 3 planes flew into the White House, Buckingham Palace and say Paris... And it came put they were Yemeni terrorists.., would we drop everything and charge into Yemen...? (granted, they don't produce 90% of the worlds opium) ... But you get the point... We're farting in the wind... And like you say, afghan in not exactley everyone's top priority...

Originally Posted by Command_doh

Originally Posted by Kyle_ni

Without getting all hippy on you, i'd say the greatest threat to the world is not radical islam. They have been kicking up a stink for decades and other than a handful of spectaculars in the west they have killed less people than normally die in gardening accidents. Maybe world hunger, enviromental disasters, Global warming, Giant asteroids or even an invasion of the men from mars is more likely to have large scale impact on the World as a whole. Islamic extremists are just filling the hole of world bad guys in public opinion and the movies left by the ussr until china takes it up. Until then Rambo and bond will be in Afghanistan or EYE-rack.

No, thats garbage. You seriously thing that a few melting ice caps over the next 50 or so years is more pressing than an Iranian supplied (or Saudi aquired, depending on whether its a crazed Suuni or Shia group) irradiated suitcase bomb going off in London, Washington or somewhere similar? No. So why say it then?

At least China have the gonads to squash their problematic restless Uighurs. Nobody else in the Westernised World has the stomach to REALLY show their populace that they are prepared to play hardball with their homegrown jihadi's and their extensive network of international supporters and backers.

The chances of Instant Sunshine being delivered to an American city are rather slim; IIRC the Septics have already stated that any such event would result in Mecca glowing in the dark...

Originally Posted by Werewolf

Originally Posted by Command_doh

Originally Posted by Kyle_ni

Without getting all hippy on you, i'd say the greatest threat to the world is not radical islam. They have been kicking up a stink for decades and other than a handful of spectaculars in the west they have killed less people than normally die in gardening accidents. Maybe world hunger, enviromental disasters, Global warming, Giant asteroids or even an invasion of the men from mars is more likely to have large scale impact on the World as a whole. Islamic extremists are just filling the hole of world bad guys in public opinion and the movies left by the ussr until china takes it up. Until then Rambo and bond will be in Afghanistan or EYE-rack.

No, thats garbage. You seriously thing that a few melting ice caps over the next 50 or so years is more pressing than an Iranian supplied (or Saudi aquired, depending on whether its a crazed Suuni or Shia group) irradiated suitcase bomb going off in London, Washington or somewhere similar? No. So why say it then?

At least China have the gonads to squash their problematic restless Uighurs. Nobody else in the Westernised World has the stomach to REALLY show their populace that they are prepared to play hardball with their homegrown jihadi's and their extensive network of international supporters and backers.

The chances of Instant Sunshine being delivered to an American city are rather slim; IIRC the Septics have already stated that any such event would result in Mecca glowing in the dark...

Well, that'll certainly settle things, won't it? They'll all go home then.

MsG

Command_doh, i think you missed the tone of my comment. i rate them all in the same boat as problems blown out of all proportion in the world of 24/7 news coverage. I can't work out why Iran would target London or risk being caught supplying such a weapon? Come on, other than trying to gain even more leverage do you really think Iran has other motives for wanting Nuclear weapons such as targeting Europe?

I'm sure they will continue to fund conventional terrorism (which pretty much every country does in some form) but find it hard to think they would bring on certain destruction of their own country for what would be a token gesture in the grand scheme of things. Comparing them to the real risk of the USSR or potential risk of a power such as China could pose to the west is niave.

Originally Posted by Steven_McLaughlin

I stand corrected Sir; but either way, as I’m sure you’ll agree, the Americans do tend to fill many of their senior political ranks with high-achieving former soldiers and all-round professional types – unlike us.

Agreed. It does seem a better system in some ways.

And I get the sense that they give more weight and gravitas to the military communities viewpoint than we do; hence the quite outspoken comments of quite a few of their Generals, both serving and retired. The difference is that they often listen to and act upon the good advice offered, however politically inconvenient, whereas our politicos sweep it under the carpet with patronising praise.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Look at how Cheney, Rumsfeld, et.al. screwed up the initial occupation of Iraq. Yes they eventually let the military (who did learn their lessons) do it their way but it did take several years.


As a side issue but crucial observational point: General Sir Richard Dannat would have done really well in the American military – even better than he did in ours – and been more appreciated by peers and politicians alike. I dare say he’d have even had a shot at the Presidency, had he wanted it. It’s a damn shame we can’t draft him as a Prime Ministerial candidate in our system, because in this day and age he’d have been like a breath of fresh air and would have made a wonderful leader. I for one have nothing but the greatest respect for him; he’s a rare giant in a land of political pygmies.

Why would you think that? A career military officer hasn't been elected President since Eisenhower. Several have tried but the only one to even get to close was John McCain last year- and he had been out of the navy and in politics almost 30 years by then.

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Originally Posted by Werewolf

Originally Posted by Command_doh

Originally Posted by Kyle_ni

Without getting all hippy on you, i'd say the greatest threat to the world is not radical islam. They have been kicking up a stink for decades and other than a handful of spectaculars in the west they have killed less people than normally die in gardening accidents. Maybe world hunger, enviromental disasters, Global warming, Giant asteroids or even an invasion of the men from mars is more likely to have large scale impact on the World as a whole. Islamic extremists are just filling the hole of world bad guys in public opinion and the movies left by the ussr until china takes it up. Until then Rambo and bond will be in Afghanistan or EYE-rack.

No, thats garbage. You seriously thing that a few melting ice caps over the next 50 or so years is more pressing than an Iranian supplied (or Saudi aquired, depending on whether its a crazed Suuni or Shia group) irradiated suitcase bomb going off in London, Washington or somewhere similar? No. So why say it then?

At least China have the gonads to squash their problematic restless Uighurs. Nobody else in the Westernised World has the stomach to REALLY show their populace that they are prepared to play hardball with their homegrown jihadi's and their extensive network of international supporters and backers.

The chances of Instant Sunshine being delivered to an American city are rather slim; IIRC the Septics have already stated that any such event would result in Mecca glowing in the dark...

Well, that'll certainly settle things, won't it? They'll all go home then.

MsG

True, those of the Islamic faith would have a complete sense of humour failure should their holiest of holies be turned into a glass car park. And no doubt would make their displeasure known in various unsubtle ways. It would'nt change the fact that a billion Muslims would have to kneel in the direction of a BFO, glow in the dark hole three times a day.

It would distroy one of the "Three Pillars" of Islam; that every Muslim who is physically capable must make at least one Pilgramage to Mecca. It would also be a kick in the b@lls faith-wise: how can all-powerful Allah let the most holy shrine in Islam be Nuked?

In the end, it's classic MAD; the Jihadi's don't want their shrine Glassed and the Septics(and everyone else)don't want millions of p1ssed off Muslims turning Washington, London or Rome into a passable imitation of Helmand...